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Old 02-16-2015, 10:36 PM   #1431
jeff_wilson
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Default Re: Ghosts and Mind Copies - The Identity Question

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From the interaction of the brain cells, not one of which understands English by itself. And from the interaction of all the cells with my sense organs and the muscles of my vocal tract.
The sense and motor parts are not properly integral to English comprehension; there needs to be some, but cases of people with impaired and missing senses and muscles reveal language can be conveyed invariantly through arbitrary input and output paths, and even taught without prior conventional exposure.

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Though I don't think the task that Searle describes the room as performing would count as "understanding Chinese" if a human being did it, either.
Searle overlooks that a person can eventually learn Chinese from studying transcripts, consulting English reference books on Chinese, and practicing taking part in conversations, in fact that is how millions of non-natives learn it each year.
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Old 03-20-2015, 10:03 PM   #1432
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Default Re: THS Rogue Planet

True, as A.I./Ghost suicide is commonly accepted in THS RAW, it's hard to come up with truly engaging drama.
A vague aura of communication disruption seems a bit heavy handed.
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Old 03-21-2015, 07:49 AM   #1433
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Default Re: THS Rogue Planet

Transmitting out?

Does that mean sending off a copy when the "original" is going to be destroyed?
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Old 03-21-2015, 08:04 AM   #1434
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Default Re: THS Rogue Planet

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Transmitting out?

Does that mean sending off a copy when the "original" is going to be destroyed?
More like the previous copy. The original probably started off somewhere else and transmitted a copy in (and then erased itself). Then the second version transmitted a third version out after learning whatever it was supposed to and deleted itself too.

"Suicide" is a dramatic word bit I see Flynn's point and tend to agree with him about it.

No doubt there's much more about tis sort of thing in the "Sticky Thread of Doom" even if most of that is about Ghosts rather than SAIs.
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Old 03-21-2015, 03:35 PM   #1435
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Default Re: THS Rogue Planet

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I spent several minutes wondering why the AIs/Ghosts would kill themselves, before remembering that it's you and that's what you call transmitting out. Can you please stick to canon terms for things so that everyone is clear what is being discussed. Someone new here who doesn't know your views would mis-interpret what you wrote.
I wrote what happens. Newcomers would have to learn that natives simply don't care about continued existence as long as copies exist somewhere else.
Killing yourself is suicide. There's no other word for it at this time.
Using technically incorrect words like uploading or sending would surely confuse newcomers more.

And that's the last I'll say about the stick of doom thread here.
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Old 03-21-2015, 04:27 PM   #1436
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Default Re: THS Rogue Planet

In canon,most A.I. characters are fine committing suicide as long as a copy exists somewhere else. Suicide is killing oneself for any reason or justification. THS gets to define game rules, not basic English.
I'm not arguing in game rules or setting beliefs, only how others use of in game terms would confuse newcomers as they would assume normal English definitions unless specifically told... which I'm telling here.
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Old 03-21-2015, 06:21 PM   #1437
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Default Re: THS Rogue Planet

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Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
More like the previous copy. The original probably started off somewhere else and transmitted a copy in (and then erased itself). Then the second version transmitted a third version out after learning whatever it was supposed to and deleted itself too.

"Suicide" is a dramatic word bit I see Flynn's point and tend to agree with him about it.

No doubt there's much more about tis sort of thing in the "Sticky Thread of Doom" even if most of that is about Ghosts rather than SAIs.
The fairly old VALENTINA: SOUL IN SAPPHIRE novel gets around this by having infomorphs spin off non-sapient partial images to scout into dangerous areas and send back memory frames
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Old 03-22-2015, 06:16 AM   #1438
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Default Re: THS Rogue Planet

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The fairly old VALENTINA: SOUL IN SAPPHIRE novel gets around this by having infomorphs spin off non-sapient partial images to scout into dangerous areas and send back memory frames
That seems like using lobotomized versions of yourself rather than just creating or using a pre-created optimized program. I don't see major ethical problems, it just gives me an odd, "huh?" feeling.
Oddly, it reminds me of a science fiction story where most animals go extinct for reasons I can't recall. So to keep farming practices, they genetically engineer humanoid analogues. And the interdimensional visitor has sex with a woman-cow because she looks like his former wife or something.
Thank you for unlocking the cage to that fuzzy memory.
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Old 03-22-2015, 10:24 AM   #1439
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Default Re: THS Rogue Planet

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More like the previous copy. The original probably started off somewhere else and transmitted a copy in (and then erased itself). Then the second version transmitted a third version out after learning whatever it was supposed to and deleted itself too.
I get that the sender might not be the original in the sense of being the first program created. I meant in the sense of being the originator or source of the transmitted copy.
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