Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-12-2018, 11:25 PM   #31
Alonsua
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2017
Default Re: Min/Max of Attributes

Yes, Iwas not aware of how old the thread was xd
Alonsua is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2018, 12:31 PM   #32
Žorkell
Icelandic - Approach With Caution
 
Žorkell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Reykjavķk, Iceland
Default Re: Min/Max of Attributes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alonsua View Post
Yes, Iwas not aware of how old the thread was xd
If you're overcome with the urge to respond to old threads try to add some new and interesting content to it, rather than as you did here by just adding a sentence stating your disagreement with one poster in the thread.
__________________
Žorkell Sigvaldason

Viking kittens | My photos | More of my photos
Žorkell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2018, 02:54 PM   #33
Plane
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default Re: Min/Max of Attributes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alonsua View Post
I disagree. World records are set by ST14 people.
I don't know we can say for sure what real world ST is based solely on lifting achievements, since Basic Lift can also be improved by the Lifting skill and through Extra Effort. We can create an outcome and "how could this outcome be achieved" with multiple options.

GURPS also has perk Unusual Backgrounds which allow exotic traits like Lifting ST or Arm ST to be bought that could also meddle with things. There's also the "(Limb) ST" limitation for Lifting ST which makes it very cheap and works to describe people who are only good at arm lifts or leg lifts (whereas Arm ST is good at lifting AND striking)
Plane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2018, 07:36 PM   #34
tbone
 
tbone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default Re: Min/Max of Attributes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plane View Post
I don't know we can say for sure what real world ST is based solely on lifting achievements, since Basic Lift can also be improved by the Lifting skill and through Extra Effort.
True, there's no way to authoritatively place a real world ST on a record lift. But you can make reasonable assumptions about what Lifting skill lies behind the lift (assume an expert level, and a good roll), and what level of Will generated Extra Effort (again, assume a good score and a good roll). Work backward from the lift results, taking the skill and Extra Effort into account, to get ST.

That's still a whole bunch of guessing, of course – pure guesses at skill and Will levels, and the rolls made. And even then, the results exist purely in game-only reality, where skill arbitrarily has this effect and Will arbitrarily has that effect. But still – you might at least generate results that fellow gamers agree on: "Yeah, that ST sounds about right, given the lifting rules".

I play around with engineering character stats from performance, here and there on my site. I don't recall that I've done much with guessing at max human ST based on lifts, though. I imagine someone else has, and probably somewhere on the forums here –
__________________
T Bone
GURPS stuff and more at the Games Diner: http://www.gamesdiner.com

Twitter: @Gamesdiner | RSS: here ⬅︎ Updated RSS link | This forum: Site updates thread (occasionally updated)

(Latest goods on site: GLAIVE Mini levels up to v2.4. Update to melee weapon design tool, with more example weapons and commentary.)
tbone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2018, 09:44 PM   #35
Flyndaran
Untagged
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Forest Grove, Beaverton, Oregon
Default Re: Min/Max of Attributes

The extra effort rules allow a massive increase in lifting. Far beyond realism, IMO. I don't believe that the strongest men on Earth are only naturally twice as strong of more "normal" default 10.
__________________
Beware, poor communication skills. No offense intended. If offended, it just means that I failed my writing skill check.

Last edited by Flyndaran; 12-13-2018 at 10:00 PM.
Flyndaran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2018, 08:21 AM   #36
Tomsdad
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
Default Re: Min/Max of Attributes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyndaran View Post
The extra effort rules allow a massive increase in lifting. Far beyond realism, IMO.
Does it?

Extra effort when lifting is a Will based lifting roll at -1 for each 10% increase in BL gone for.

So yeah a high will and high skill will add bonus but that seems fine to me?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyndaran View Post
I don't believe that the strongest men on Earth are only naturally twice as strong of more "normal" default 10.

I don't either, but I also think training and will power are important when the strongest men on earth push their limits, and that value adds basic BL

a ST14, +2 lifting ST, Will 12, Lifting skill +8 & using EE will lift more than 2x as much as ST10 Will10 lifting skill +0 normal default & using EE.


Don't get me wrong if your game doesn't use or allow Lifting skill, specialised Lifting ST and EE than yeah you go with just comparing ST based BL (and you will need high Basic ST to get to the kind of lifts very strong people do)
__________________
Grand High* Poobah of the Cult of Stat Normalisation.
*not too high of course

Last edited by Tomsdad; 12-14-2018 at 08:31 AM.
Tomsdad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2018, 12:13 PM   #37
mr beer
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Default Re: Min/Max of Attributes

If you apply expert levels of Lifting skill and Lift ST+2 and Extra Effort and maybe Arm ST, you can achieve absurdly low ST scores for a person meeting world records. My feel is that ST > 15 is pretty reasonable for the strongest humans, and then have Lift ST on top of that.

Lifting skill doesn't really work well for real world lifts anyway, since it's so random. It would be better applied as some kind of bonus, with a sliding scale of what lifts get what bonus. Olympic lifts are much more technique based (skilful in GURPS terms IMO) than powerlifting lifts.

I'd probably cap ST at 18 for a realistic campaign, of course in a realistic campaign that person would be spending a fortune on food, would need to acquire and administer drugs that are illegal in many countries and be spending upwards of 2 hours per day training.
mr beer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2018, 12:26 PM   #38
malloyd
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Default Re: Min/Max of Attributes

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr beer View Post
Lifting skill doesn't really work well for real world lifts anyway, since it's so random. It would be better applied as some kind of bonus, with a sliding scale of what lifts get what bonus. Olympic lifts are much more technique based (skilful in GURPS terms IMO) than powerlifting lifts.
I really think Lifting skill ought to be killed out entirely. It is one of a handful of skills that exist because GURPS 3e made it ridiculously expensive, or flat out impossible to buy up attributes or advantages in play, but based stuff that people clearly could improve on them. In a game with a flat 3/level Lifting ST purchasable at the same cost in play, there's no good reason for it to exist. I'd say the same for skills like Hiking, Running or Mental Strength.

Honestly I think some of the Extra Effort stuff is a similar patch.
__________________
--
MA Lloyd
malloyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2018, 04:12 PM   #39
evileeyore
Banned
 
evileeyore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: 100 hurricane swamp
Default Re: Min/Max of Attributes

Quote:
Originally Posted by malloyd View Post
I really think Lifting skill ought to be killed out entirely.
I use it as a "Make this roll or you'll lose FP or HP for lifting above your casual weight limits".
evileeyore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2018, 04:26 PM   #40
Polydamas
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Central Europe
Default Re: Min/Max of Attributes

Quote:
Originally Posted by PPoS View Post
Hmm... Interesting. However this is where I wonder; why should one be able to have such a high score in ST while it would be unappropriate to have it in the other Attributes ?
Because ST scales absolutely: the intelligent mouse can have less than ST 1, the wizard polymorphed into an elephant has ST 50, and they can still be agents in the same story. DX and IQ scale relatively ... someone with much lower than Intelligence 7 is probably too dull to be a protagonist in an adventure story, much higher than Intelligence 15 will tend to be implausibly good at too many things.

There are plenty of people who can pull a 150 lb bow when a healthy 20-year-old with a few weeks of training will be more comfortable with 50 lbs (so probably have three times the Basic Lift for that task as a character with ST 10), but its hard to find real people who would best be described as having Dexterity 16 in GURPS.
__________________
"It is easier to banish a habit of thought than a piece of knowledge." H. Beam Piper

This forum got less aggravating when I started using the ignore feature
Polydamas is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
attributes

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:41 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.