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10-03-2017, 03:43 PM | #1 |
Join Date: Jan 2006
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DF Implied Cosmology
There's been a bit of back and forth about demons, but if we take a step back, what exactly IS the cosmology, implied or explicit, of DF?
Good, Evil, Bunny, Squid is only sort of a joke, since the GEBS categorization works for a lot of things. Some random evidence I've observed: Capital G "Good" seems implacably in opposition to capital E "Evil," and vice versa. Both are associated with advantages and disads that are roughly in line with common conceptions of those moralities. They are not REQUIRED to have any of these however. A delver can have a lot of power that is Good without seeming to be a good person. It all seems very faux biblical. Natural power seems to have little in the way of morality other than SoD: Nature. Despite this common SoD, they are not razing Civilization to the ground. "Things" are nutzy-kookoo Lovecraftian evil, and seem conflated with "Evil" evil in the minds of most folks. SPOILERS IN FOOTNOTE [1] Lots of stuff is "truly evil" which seems to mostly mean that you shouldn't try to ever cut a deal with it, and is a qualifier for certain powers to work against it. Seen it apply to Evilies AND Squiddies. Hell seems to be a place in DF. Maybe Heaven, but I'm not sure. Squid come from Somewhere Else, I think. Visiting is probably not recommended. Nature may have its own special Place (Faerie?) but that is not a sure thing. There are Elemental planes, right? Natural elementals live in the setting, but the summoned ones are from the planes, I think. Lots of stuff needs magic, and it doesn't seem to have any associated moral compass or location. I am unclear on if sanctity of various sorts is loosely tied to magic (mana) or completely separate from it. (There do not seem to be direct ties, but the spell mechanisms are very similar...) Weird magic critters are often dependent on mana. This has more to do with being weird than with ties between magic and any facet of GEBS though. Souls seem to be a verifiable thing. Undead are a thing, but seem to be mixture of power sources, including magic, evil, and squid. Chi is another thing entirely from all of this. Other thoughts, observations, theories? [1] Including the folks in the intro adventure. |
10-03-2017, 03:45 PM | #2 |
Wielder of Smart Pants
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
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Re: DF Implied Cosmology
DF7 has Good, Evil, Neutral/Nature, and Insane alignments for deities.
I very deliberately treated order and chaos as non-axial concepts in "Clerics of Order and Chaos". |
10-03-2017, 04:32 PM | #3 |
Never Been Pretty
Join Date: Jan 2005
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Re: DF Implied Cosmology
Sanctity and Mana are not influenced by each other.
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Daydreams of a Dragon: My blog |
10-03-2017, 06:48 PM | #4 |
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Northeast Kansas
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Re: DF Implied Cosmology
From what I've gathered, by the book there are gods and the Devil.
I like a dualistic world, so I'm going to cut those gods down to one, and differentiate clerics by something like Monastic Orders. |
10-04-2017, 07:22 AM | #5 |
Join Date: Sep 2004
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Re: DF Implied Cosmology
If you want to make things more morally ambiguous, you can trade in "Good and Evil" for "Light and Dark", and then twist things around so you occasionally have Imps who are more mischievous then malicious, or Knight-Templar Zealot Angels.
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10-04-2017, 07:57 AM | #6 |
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Re: DF Implied Cosmology
Yes, but the spells work basically the same way. This may be just a game mechanical convenience. Another possibility is that sanctity is mana run through a service provider. Or possibly mana is an unusual kind of sanctity.
Not relevant for most Delvers or most delves, but it is a valid question about cosmology. How complicated IS supernatural stuff? On one hand, you might argue that all supernatural stuff can trace it's power back to "magic" in the end. (GURPS mana magic, that is.) All other apparent sources are channeling it through some channel that can ignore mana levels, etc. My feeling is that this is NOT the default case in DF RAW. But DF cosmology is not explicit, and I think this is a good thing, cuz rolling your own in sort of a GURPS tradition, and usually the players don't care much anyway. The fine distinctions between how Things and Martial artists put mind over matter don't really affect loot that much. |
10-04-2017, 08:57 AM | #7 |
GURPS Line Editor
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Montréal, Québec
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Re: DF Implied Cosmology
Sanctity, Nature's strength, and mana are not related in any useful way. To paraphrase the relevant parts of Spells, pp. 5-8:
A martial artist's chi has nothing to do with any of this! It's inner strength, not magic. It doesn't attempt to change the outside world. It changes the wielder, giving that person a superior capacity to change the world through physical action (fists, the shout of a Kiai, etc.). When those actions are resisted (as with Kiai or Pressure Points), that's no different from resisting poison, disease, or somebody else's ST. One possible partial cosmology explaining this:
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Sean "Dr. Kromm" Punch <kromm@sjgames.com> GURPS Line Editor, Steve Jackson Games My DreamWidth [Just GURPS News] |
10-04-2017, 09:18 AM | #8 | |
Banned
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: 100 hurricane swamp
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Re: DF Implied Cosmology
Quote:
Hmmm. Maybe all those sophonts in the cities are dampening it down, constraining it somehow? Where as in the 'wilds' where there are less sophonts, it's "free" so to speak? |
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10-04-2017, 09:47 AM | #9 |
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Re: DF Implied Cosmology
OK, so in Kromm's cosmological framework supernatural power seems to all be various filters on Unfiltered (Cosmic) "mana" from higher dimensions. (No filter required if you are a Squids, or an actual God.) Works as a solid default assumption for me.
However, two observations: 1. Both gods and Squids can mess with Cosmic mana directly. The Gods used it to build the reality they and the delvers live in. Other Squids come from "outside" but are not generally powerful as Gods. I have a mental model where reality is a house, the Gods are the "owners," Squiddies are "vermin," and the rest of creation is "furniture" or "servants." Perhaps the legendary capriciousness of the Gods can be put down to good and bad "days at work." 2. I think this means Jedi & Sith are feuding Druid clans. |
12-20-2018, 10:36 PM | #10 |
Dog of Lysdexics
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Melbourne FL, Formerly Wellington NZ
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Re: DF Implied Cosmology
SOD (Nature) isn't about Hating Civilisation, it very much in line with Druids like Getafix who is very much a member of civilisation, who goal is seeing his community is in harmony with nature. it includes land husbandry for farming, protecting from soil erosion etc.
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Tags |
cosmology, gebs, gods, primordial entities, squid |
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