25% of Starting Points

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Daigoro

For the parents or the child?

True 'nuff- I was only thinking about the 150%/200% clause, which of course breaks down completely if you look at a 0 CP character.

A good way to model parents is actually as Enemy (Watcher).

A Patron is somebody who doesn't go along on your adventures, but provides you with substantial aid and support for them on a continuing basis. If you're twelve years old and your parents will encourage and fund you when you go out to fight monsters, or battle superpowered criminals, and travel to Mars, then yes, they're Patrons. But if they just give you a place to live, clothes, and a phone, I think they're part of your standard of living.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by RyanW

The problem is (IMO) that the value of Allies scales with character power, but the cost of Allies does not. Superguy can have Batdude as an Ally for practically free, since even the highest cost of Ally is an afterthought on his huge budget. Meanwhile, Hobo Steve could take Hobo Mike as an Ally, but it would cost him a substantial chunk of his points. Both are approximately multiplicative in increased capabilities, but additive in increased cost.

In real terms getting a normal ally is just adding a GMPC to the group and the GM will then add another opponent to a typical encounter. Your actual effectiveness will not have changed at all. Superdude doesn't need Batguy. If he bothered to buy a Batguy, it probably has more to do with giving his character a romantic interest than anything to do with increasing his power.

[Tomsdad]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

In real terms getting a normal ally is just adding a GMPC to the group and the GM will then add another opponent to a typical encounter. Your actual effectiveness will not have changed at all. Superdude doesn't need Batguy. If he bothered to buy a Batguy, it probably has more to do with giving his character a romantic interest than anything to do with increasing his power.

In terms of firepower to encounter level that's true.

However where ally can shine is in accessing traits that couldn't (or wouldn't) have fitted into the PC's build or concept.

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by Tomsdad

I guess there is also the point that at 25cp we wouldn't expect anywhere as much capability from Hobo Mike as we do from 2000cp Superguy. So an investment in a 15pt advantage should be a proportionally greater one for the former than the later

Look at it another way:

Hobo Steve, for 5 points, can get a 1d Burning Attack, 1 DR, or a 25 point Ally.
Superguy, for 5 points, can get a 1d Burning Attack, 1 DR, or a 2000 point Ally.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by RyanW

Look at it another way:

Hobo Steve, for 5 points, can get a 1d Burning Attack, 1 DR, or a 25 point Ally.
Superguy, for 5 points, can get a 1d Burning Attack, 1 DR, or a 2000 point Ally.

And if he takes that Ally instead of the DR or die of damage he will not be one iota more capable.

[Lord Azagthoth]

Originally Posted by whswhs

School is irrelevant to social skills; most schools don't offer effective courses in such skills, and many of them wouldn't be considered appropriate to try to teach—Fast-Talk, Intimidation, Merchant, Sex Appeal, and Streetwise, for example.

Those are though by your fellow students (and how to counter-act those skills). Being at school teaches you those skills in opposition to a private teacher at home.

[GodBeastX]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

In real terms getting a normal ally is just adding a GMPC to the group and the GM will then add another opponent to a typical encounter.

SHHHHHHHH! *Looks around with shifty eyes*

But seriously it's hard to put a price tag on Ally that will cover every single situation. This is why GURPS has GMs who are supposed to price advantages for their campaign instead of blindly RAW'ing everything.

For example "I have an ally who is 100 points instead of my 200 points! He has disadvantages to always want to give me money then I gave him multimillionaire!"

"So basically you just shortcut the wealth rules to get money for much cheaper!"

GM has to always decide what the value of anything is. I have a player in my game who has an ally who is way more points than they are, yet it is not nearly as effective because all the advantages just ended up costly that don't tend to accomplish as much as the PC. So they are priced according to my desire.

Edit: In fact, if you're on these forums worried about the point cost, this is probably one of those cases where the GM should be arbitrating what is fair for the game. GURPS tries to fill all the gaps, but where there are some there is a GM.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Lord Azagthoth

Those are though by your fellow students (and how to counter-act those skills). Being at school teaches you those skills in opposition to a private teacher at home.

Or fails to teach them.

But the thing is, there are no formal lessons in Sex Appeal, or Intimidation, or even Administration as part of the school curriculum. So applying the 200 hours = 1 point ratio doesn't work. It looks more like on-the-job learning, at 800 hours = 1 point. But then all the time you spend sitting in classrooms listening to the teacher is fairly irrelevant. It's more like "learning by immersion," the way GURPS has you gain Cultural Familiarity and allows you to learn a spoken language.

And even then, I don't think the average kid comes out of high school with points in ANY social skill. I think that gets them up to the default level in all those skills. Sure, some kids learn Streetwise, or Sex Appeal, or even Politics, but the ones without a special interest don't. At least, in a campaign I ran, I wouldn't have the average adult have one point each in all the Influence skills.

[Bicorn]

It's always kind of fascinating when you start discussing game mechanics with someone and realize halfway through that their interpretation of the rules is so different from yours that it might as well be an entirely different game system.
This kind of thing is not limited to RPGs, of course. We tend to assume communication is a lot more unambiguous than it really is.

[Stormcrow]

Originally Posted by GodBeastX

For example "I have an ally who is 100 points instead of my 200 points! He has disadvantages to always want to give me money then I gave him multimillionaire!"

"So basically you just shortcut the wealth rules to get money for much cheaper!"

GMs build Allies, not players.