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Old 09-23-2021, 09:47 PM   #1
KataH
 
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Default Create unique Skills based on other Skills and different attributes.

Armin
  • I hope this make sense and you can help me here if this is not to complicated. I want to create a GDF file of skills that are based on the points put into the Base skill however they are based on a different Attributes.
  • For Example, Artist (Woodworking), p. B179, is based on IQ/H. The skill states “but there are many situations in which the GM could logically ask for a DX-based roll, in which case modifiers for High Manual Dexterity (p. 59) or Ham-Fisted (p. 138) would apply. In rare cases, even a ST-based Artist roll might make sense – for instance, to work with a physically tough material.”
  • I want to have the skills be a selectable skill in GCA, have them default to the base skill, it autocrinally selects the default skill as a prerequisite (if not already selected, cannot put points into them, and give them slightly different names like Artists (Woodworking – DX Based) or Artist (Woodworking – ST Based). Once I see how that is done, I can do the same thing for Per based Soldier (for Situational Awareness rolls) or DX base Shiphandling (Ship – Helm, etc.

Can this be done or is it too complicated?
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Old 09-24-2021, 04:40 PM   #2
Armin
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Default Re: Create unique Skills based on other Skills and different attributes.

I couldn't think of any way to do that directly, or even indirectly, entirely within the new traits.

The best I could come up with is to have the original skill, Artist (Woodworking) in this case, grant a bonus equal to its points to the sub-skill.

The one hiccup to that, is that there appears to be a bug in GCA (both 4 and 5) where if I use upto() to limit the sub-skill to 0 points, it doesn't actually allow any skill level at all. So, to implement the bit about not letting them spend points in the sub-skill, you'll have to wait for me to release the bug-fixed version of GCA5. But, until then, you could do something like this:

Code:
Artist (Woodworking), IQ/H, 
	default(IQ - 6, SK:Carpentry - 3, "SK:Artist (Interior Decorating)" - 4, "SK:Artist (Scene Design)" - 4, SK:Artist - 6), 
	page(B179), cat(_General, Arts/Entertainment, Craft),
	gives(="me::points" pts to "SK:Artist (Woodworking - DX)")

Artist (Woodworking - DX), DX/H, page(B179), cat(_General, Arts/Entertainment, Craft), 
	page(B179), cat(_General, Arts/Entertainment, Craft),
	upto(0 pts), needs("SK:Artist (Woodworking)")
Again, that upto(0 pts) should NOT be included until GCA5 gets a fix for it (and GCA4 will never get that fix)--so not putting points into it would be up to the users to remember for the time being.

That's the best I can come up with right now. But because the sub-skill is based on DX and has no defaults, it'll always be based on DX and only the points granted to it by the main skill.

This is a bit more work than something we could entirely build into the sub-skills, but I can't see how else to do it.
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Old 09-25-2021, 12:15 PM   #3
Angel Darkover
 
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Default Re: Create unique Skills based on other Skills and different attributes.

Question for you, Armin.

The Basic Set GDF lists a base attribute for:
N/A, cost(0/1), base(0), defaultstat(0), relname()

Could this be used? If so, would the following skill entry work?

Artist (Woodworking - DX), N/A, default("SK:Artist (Woodworking)" - ST:IQ + ST:DX), page(B179), cat(_General, Arts/Entertainment, Craft)

Yes, it would be useless to put points into it - and GCA would need the setting turned on to display 0 point skills, which I know does work because I used it all the time pre-Covid. It wouldn't be capped with the upto() command but it would still produce results, yes?

If multiple operations in the default is a problem, a helper stat could be created to calculate the difference between stats (for each pairing) instead, yes?
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Old 09-25-2021, 02:23 PM   #4
Armin
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Default Re: Create unique Skills based on other Skills and different attributes.

Maybe? I think probably, but I'm unable to test it right now.

Default() has *very* limited math capabilities, so your default() tag won't work as you have it. I think your helper stat idea might push it into the "workable" realm, if you'd like to try that. You only need to test one combination to see if it works, so it shouldn't take long to test.
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Old 09-26-2021, 03:03 PM   #5
Angel Darkover
 
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Default Re: Create unique Skills based on other Skills and different attributes.

Hi Armin and KataH,

I put something together and tested it, and the helper stat approach does indeed work. I have a starter GDF available here:

https://bel-gurps.s3.us-west-2.amazo...ent+Skills.gdf

It has all of the pertinent helper stats but only one divergent skill, the DX-based Artist (Woodworking) variant. You will want to use it as a guide for any other stat-divergent skills.

The AUTHOR section is probably overkill, but it was a simple copy/paste from by GDF base file which is meant to cover any base regardless of other supporting data files.

I hope this helps and has solved your difficulty, KataH.
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Old 09-26-2021, 07:58 PM   #6
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Default Re: Create unique Skills based on other Skills and different attributes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angel Darkover View Post
I hope this helps and has solved your difficulty, KataH.
Thanks a ton! I also hope it helps KataH.
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Old 09-30-2021, 02:10 PM   #7
KataH
 
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Default Re: Create unique Skills based on other Skills and different attributes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angel Darkover View Post
Hi Armin and KataH,

I put something together and tested it, and the helper stat approach does indeed work. I have a starter GDF available here:

https://bel-gurps.s3.us-west-2.amazo...ent+Skills.gdf

It has all of the pertinent helper stats but only one divergent skill, the DX-based Artist (Woodworking) variant. You will want to use it as a guide for any other stat-divergent skills.

The AUTHOR section is probably overkill, but it was a simple copy/paste from by GDF base file which is meant to cover any base regardless of other supporting data files.

I hope this helps and has solved your difficulty, KataH.
Yes indeed it does - Thank you both so very much!
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Old 09-30-2021, 06:42 PM   #8
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Default Re: Create unique Skills based on other Skills and different attributes.

All works fine however when I add the following to the gdf file:
needs(SK:Artist (Woodworking)

It no longer loads that skill.
I can manual edit this when I add the Divergent skill by entering it into the 'needs' tag, it works fine. Then I save to a gdf format and now it no longer loads (meaning I cannot see it in the skill list).
I tried needs("SK:Artist (Woodworking") and needs("SK:Artist (Woodworking)" as well.
What am I missing here?
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Old 09-30-2021, 09:38 PM   #9
Armin
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Default Re: Create unique Skills based on other Skills and different attributes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KataH View Post
All works fine however when I add the following to the gdf file:
needs(SK:Artist (Woodworking)

It no longer loads that skill.
I can manual edit this when I add the Divergent skill by entering it into the 'needs' tag, it works fine. Then I save to a gdf format and now it no longer loads (meaning I cannot see it in the skill list).
I tried needs("SK:Artist (Woodworking") and needs("SK:Artist (Woodworking)" as well.
What am I missing here?
You have to balance your parentheses! Every opening ( needs a closing ). "SK:Artist (Woodworking)" inside needs() is needs("SK:Artist (Woodworking)"). Compare to what you wrote above. If you don't have balanced parentheses, GCA won't be able to parse the data correctly.
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Old 09-30-2021, 09:50 PM   #10
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Default Re: Create unique Skills based on other Skills and different attributes.

OMG how did I miss that - it was so obvious. Bonk Bonk - hitting my head with a frozen feather.
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