Did Someone Muck Up Deer Antlers?

[scc]

So somehow I got it into my head that Deer Antlers are a karate weapon in GURPS, so when I looked it up today I was a bit surprised to find they're Knife and Main-Gauche.

Now Deer Antlers are technically a form of knife, but Wikipedia says that they're most associated with Baguazhang, which Martial Arts treats, as a form of Pa Kua Chuan, which doesn't have either skill, which could just be a minor oversight.

But there's also the ergonomics problem, I suppose you could call it. The design of Deer Antlers means you'd be either punching or wielding them like a knife hand, trying to wield them like a knife would an interesting experience. If you're going to use them with any weapon skill, I'd say it would be Jitte/Sai.

So is this just me not getting something or is there an error here?

[Varyon]

They look to me like they'd be usable similarly to a katar, which uses Knife rather than Brawling/Karate (it can use Brawling/Karate for Parries, but that's due to the design of the hilt, which is sort of like an open gauntlet) - although if you feel (as I sometimes do) the katar should be usable with Brawling/Karate, certainly deer antlers should be in the same boat. As for them also being usable with Main-Gauche when that isn't the case for the katar, I'd assume that's due to the lightness of the construction, as well as the manner in which they are typically used.

[scc]

Wait, they made punch-daggers use Knife instead of Karate? WTF?

Also Deer Antlers have a crescent that looks like a Jitte or Sai, but couldn't be used like one because it lacks the central thine.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by scc

Wait, they made punch-daggers use Knife instead of Karate? WTF?

Grip doesn't change the Skill used. The blade is Knife length so Knife is the Skill. Gurps blade skills are _very_ broad about the different kinds of blades they cover.

Karate is the Skill of scientific punching and kicking. You'd be lucky if it covered use of a fist-load.

[scc]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

Grip doesn't change the Skill used. The blade is Knife length so Knife is the Skill. Gurps blade skills are _very_ broad about the different kinds of blades they cover.

Karate is the Skill of scientific punching and kicking. You'd be lucky if it covered use of a fist-load.

OK, first of this goes very much against the idea of what a skill is, GURPS weapon skills work on how you hold and maneuver an object rather then anything else, how else would you be able to wield a length of dowel as a sword otherwise?

Secondly blade length is a second attribute that GURPS uses so that there's a line when a knife becomes a short sword and a short sword becomes a long sword.

Examples that support both of these are Axe/Mace being a single skill instead of two, Knife and Main-Gauche are two separate skills instead of being one, and likely the divison between fencing and sword skills.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by scc

OK, first of this goes very much against the idea of what a skill is, GURPS weapon skills work on how you hold and maneuver an object rather then anything else, how else would you be able to wield a length of dowel as a sword otherwise?

Youir statement is not accurate.

Gurps weapon Skills appear to be based on length grip and balance. How else could Escrima sticks (which are Swung) and European Thrust Only Smallswords use the same Skill?

In a way this is almost normal. The Knife/Shortsword/Broadsword/Two-handed sword continuum is filled with single Skills that cover all blades of a given weight and length regardless of whether they are Thrust only, Swing only or can do both.

If you want to start a crusade I recommend the smallsword/escrima stick mushing together. You can get back to us when you've made progress on that.

[Phil Masters]

Whisper it: The GURPS weapon skills categories are a mess. My unwritten GURPS 4.5 rewrites the lot.

[Ultraviolet]

Originally Posted by Phil Masters

Whisper it: The GURPS weapon skills categories are a mess. My unwritten GURPS 4.5 rewrites the lot.

[Whispers with interest]: But when will you write them? ;)

[Anaraxes]

Those unruly rules remain unrewritten until a writer rightly writes new rules to rewrite them.

[talonthehand]

Originally Posted by scc

Wait, they made punch-daggers use Knife instead of Karate? WTF?

Just going out on a limb here, but I imagine it’s so people don’t try to get the damage bonus for both high karate skill and weapon master. At least it’s a perk to not having it use Karate.