Dungeon Fantasy Roleplaying Game Discussion Thread

[Gnomasz]

Originally Posted by afschell

Grappling Question:

Let's say one member of a Dire Wolf pack pounces on someone and, after all the rolls, has knocked the target over and is still standing.

My interpretation of the RAW is that Mr. Wolf and the target are in close combat and that the target is now "grappled" with the corresponding -4 to DX penalty. This penalty applies to all defense rolls for either Mr. Wolf's attack next turn or any of his pack mates that may attack either this turn or next. And that all of them can target the neck at -3.

Is this correct?

Thanks in advance.

They are in close combat, yes.
The target is now grappled, yes, has a DX penalty, and it applies (as -2 or -1) to active defenses, yes.
This penalty applies as long as the victim is grappled, so -- kind of. It applies to Mr. Wolf's attack next turn, if the victim doesn't break free in the meantime and if Mr. Wolf doesn't release the hold. The same applies to attacks by Mr. Wolf's friends.
I don't see how any of the wolves could target the neck at -3?

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by Gnomasz

I don't see how any of the wolves could target the neck at -3?

Grappling attacks halve hit location penalties in the main rules. I would need to see if this halving (rounding to -3 from -5) still applies in the DFRPG distillation.

[Gnomasz]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

Grappling attacks halve hit location penalties in the main rules. I would need to see if this halving (rounding to -3 from -5) still applies in the DFRPG distillation.

They do (Exploits, p. 40), but the Dire Wolves don't have any true grappling attacks: afschell mentions pounce, which is a slam (striking) attack with a free grapple effect. The Dire Wolves don't have any grappling skill, and their bite doesn't by RAW end with a grapple either.

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by Gnomasz

They do (Exploits, p. 40), but the Dire Wolves don't have any true grappling attacks: afschell mentions pounce, which is a slam (striking) attack with a free grapple effect. The Dire Wolves don't have any grappling skill, and their bite doesn't by RAW end with a grapple either.

Ah. In my games, wolves and hunters mostly bite-to-grapple, but dire wolves have always been more monster than animal, so anything might go. I'd need to look and see; wolves may be one of the creatures that bite and worry and then retreat to do so again, rather than grapple-and-choke.

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

Ah. In my games, wolves and hunters mostly bite-to-grapple, but dire wolves have always been more monster than animal, so anything might go. I'd need to look and see; wolves may be one of the creatures that bite and worry and then retreat to do so again, rather than grapple-and-choke.

Real wolves will use several different techniques, depending on prey. I don't know about grapple-and-choke but biting to grapple limbs and pulling the animal down is in their repertoire. As is biting at the nose to twist, grapple, and take down, actually - OWCH!
For very large prey they run it down, tire it, surround it, and then lunge in, bite, and retreat, until the large prey is weakened by blood loss. But this is with a number of wolves so they can keep the prey distracted and circling instead of overwhelming any one wolf.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by Bruno

Real wolves will use several different techniques, depending on prey. I don't know about grapple-and-choke but biting to grapple limbs and pulling the animal down is in their repertoire.

Don't know how much is instinct versus learned, but our wolf/malamute (97% timber wolf) did bite and choke when she had to fight for realz. She may have been taught that by our other dogs growing up though... so not sure if wild wolves would do that.


She got into it with a feral dog when we were out camping. It came up and tried to steal food from our camp one night and then refused to back down when threatened by us humans and our dogs (a dingo/shepherd mix and a black lab) and wolf. It lost the fight and the Stepdad put it out of it's misery when we calmed the wolf down and pulled her away from it. She was still a 'pup' (barely a year old) and wasn't heel trained as well as the other two.

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

Don't know how much is instinct versus learned, but our wolf/malamute (97% timber wolf) did bite and choke when she had to fight for realz. She may have been taught that by our other dogs growing up though... so not sure if wild wolves would do that.

That's much closer to the wolfs level - I confess I was thinking about deer or the occasional moose (which is where you get a wolf hanging off the poor things big, fleshy, sensitive nose).

For large animals there's a lot of biting at the hindquarters by the wolves circling behind it while distracted by a wolf in front. When it turns around to face those wolves, the wolves that are now behind it bite it. Lather, rinse, repeat until it bleeds down.

Hyenas will bite and hang off the hindquarters of a big animal, and if they rip something off they eat it and go and bite again. Again, the ultimate goal is to have the animal bleed down.

[philosophyguy]

The third part of my DFPRG review, Spells, is now posted. While I was thrilled with Adventurers and quite positive about Exploits, I feel this book misses the mark in terms of organization and usability.

[Bira]

I posted a review of my own over here. It's more of my own opinion of the game than a detailed breakdown of its contents.

[afschell]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

Don't know how much is instinct versus learned, but our wolf/malamute (97% timber wolf) did bite and choke when she had to fight for realz. She may have been taught that by our other dogs growing up though... so not sure if wild wolves would do that.

That's pretty much what I was thinking. Personally, I had a 125# malamute that, while playfully wrestling, would put her front paws on my chest and "pin" me. Not easily escaped, either.

I'm trying to find a DFRPG mechanic that will allow for a dog/wolf/vargr to perform a takedown/throat attack. Grappling is close, but they don't have hands. Basic Characters has the "sweep" technique, which could possibly be used, but I am trying to minimize including extra rules.

And I do appreciate everyone's input.