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Old 08-20-2013, 05:55 PM   #21
cybermancer2k1
 
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Default Re: Terradyne

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Originally Posted by David Johnston2 View Post
Not a comet as such. Saturn's outermost moon, Phoebe. I do not believe the idea to be practical but if Mars gained atmospheric pressure by such means, the atmosphere would be retained for a very long time by human standards.
This is one of the things that would need updating. It would probably be easier to nudge a series of comets into the proper orbit or nick a Kuiper Belt Object than steal one of Saturn's moons. But the resulting outrage at Terradyne's having done so was part of the narrative.
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Old 08-20-2013, 06:42 PM   #22
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Default Re: Terradyne

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Originally Posted by cybermancer2k1 View Post
This is one of the things that would need updating. It would probably be easier to nudge a series of comets into the proper orbit or nick a Kuiper Belt Object than steal one of Saturn's moons. But the resulting outrage at Terradyne's having done so was part of the narrative.
That's not an issue of "updating". The inherent problems of moving a 200 kilometer object are no greater now than they were then. It was just a part of "the whole point of this setting is to have an inhabited solar system no matter how little sense it makes".
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Old 08-20-2013, 08:03 PM   #23
Peter Knutsen
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Default Re: Terradyne

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Yes, that's all true. Those are great examples.
Thanks. I actually tried to think up better examples, but I couldn't. Of course you got the huge mainframe computers in Zahn's "Blackcollar" trilogy, but in the entire trilogy, there's only one place where that makes a diference, and even that is a minor difference.

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But that stuff could be modeled in a game with little or no use of real world technical specs. In GURPS the TL and 'Complexity' of computers and programs matters more than real world details about processing speed, or what have you.
I disagree. It's very important whether you can fit many gigabytes of data into an essentially 2D data card of only a few cubic millimeters, or if you need something like an entire litre of volume of tape casette to transport just a single megabyte. Just think about the Holdout skill roll modifier!

And likewise, random-access storage media such as discs and chip cards, versus tape-based media where spooling to the data entry you want may take minutes.

Then there's data transfer speeds. Are we talking megabytes per hour, or gigabytes per minute?. And, as in one of the examples, whether people have Internet at home (privacy implications), and if so, whether it is almost everybody, or only the tech geek subset... The Shadowrun RPG also makes much, in the 4th Edition, of wireless net (with the otaku "class" of magic users), which was a non-issue in 3rd Edition and earlier, where it was always wire-based.

Also, in general, I like the retro-tech thing. Not always, but often, and I think there are good reasons for using it in science fiction RPGs.
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Old 08-20-2013, 08:05 PM   #24
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Default Re: Terradyne

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Ha! I don't remember that; I'll have to re-read the setting. The part I remember is a comet impact giving Mars enough atmospheric pressure to survive without a pressure suit. I have no idea how realistic that is. Or how long such an atmosphere would last.
Others on her can give more qualified replies about how long it'd last, but I believe it could be decades, even a century or two. You'd need several very large comets, though. Mars is smaller than Earth, but still very big.
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Old 08-20-2013, 08:06 PM   #25
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Default Re: Terradyne

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Originally Posted by David Johnston2 View Post
That's not an issue of "updating". The inherent problems of moving a 200 kilometer object are no greater now than they were then. It was just a part of "the whole point of this setting is to have an inhabited solar system no matter how little sense it makes".
It sounds as if it's a good example of not even trying to have things make sense.
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Old 08-20-2013, 08:12 PM   #26
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Default Re: Terradyne

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While I'd like to see Terradyne return, even as just an e23 reprint, I think the real question is how hard would Transhuman Space step on its toes? A lot of the background conventions are the same.
This is the key factor, right here.

THS not only "updated" Terradyne, it took the same goals (fairly hard sci-fi, near-future setting with an inhabited solar system) and much of the same background information and actors (Columbia Aerospace, etc.), updated all of that stuff, and then added in (highly) optimistic projections of the latest advances in biotechnology (none of which appeared in Terradyne).

Ergo, THS is the upgrade of Terradyne or, more specifically, the successor setting which surpasses the original in every qualitative way.

If you want something similar to Terradyne, use THS and subtract out the parts you don't want, and you'll have a setting that's still better than the original.
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Old 08-20-2013, 09:04 PM   #27
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Default Re: Terradyne

I'd say THS is not a 'fairly hard sci fi' setting. It's more like 'radical' SF.

YMMV
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Old 08-20-2013, 09:16 PM   #28
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Default Re: Terradyne

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Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen View Post
Thanks. I actually tried to think up better examples, but I couldn't. Of course you got the huge mainframe computers in Zahn's "Blackcollar" trilogy, but in the entire trilogy, there's only one place where that makes a diference, and even that is a minor difference.



I disagree. It's very important whether you can fit many gigabytes of data into an essentially 2D data card of only a few cubic millimeters, or if you need something like an entire litre of volume of tape casette to transport just a single megabyte. Just think about the Holdout skill roll modifier!

And likewise, random-access storage media such as discs and chip cards, versus tape-based media where spooling to the data entry you want may take minutes.

Then there's data transfer speeds. Are we talking megabytes per hour, or gigabytes per minute?. And, as in one of the examples, whether people have Internet at home (privacy implications), and if so, whether it is almost everybody, or only the tech geek subset... The Shadowrun RPG also makes much, in the 4th Edition, of wireless net (with the otaku "class" of magic users), which was a non-issue in 3rd Edition and earlier, where it was always wire-based.

Also, in general, I like the retro-tech thing. Not always, but often, and I think there are good reasons for using it in science fiction RPGs.


True, those sorts of tech details do matter.

I was more narrowing focused on the technical specs. What I was suggesting is that , for many gamers, the fine details of download speeds and file sizes may never come up in play.

Player-
"How long does the stolen file take to load?"

GM (looks at notes, rolls dice if needed)

"Five minutes."


That's what I'd expect, most of the time.

YMMV
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Old 08-20-2013, 09:18 PM   #29
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Default Re: Terradyne

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Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen View Post
Others on her can give more qualified replies about how long it'd last, but I believe it could be decades, even a century or two. You'd need several very large comets, though. Mars is smaller than Earth, but still very big.
About a hundred millenia.
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Old 08-20-2013, 09:28 PM   #30
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Default Re: Terradyne

I'd like to add that I was probably wrong in writing '90% won't care.' Change that to 'most' or 'many', and I still think it's valid.

But Peter does make good points. A 'future history' SF game setting with what would now be retrotech computers should have some explanation for that difference.
Terradyne does have a world computer web, common VR, some cyberpunk stuff. But some of the details would seem outdated to us.
If my option of 'don't worry about what the books gives for specs and just run the game mechanics' doesn't satisfy, then there remain the two other options I gave. One is to simply 'update' Terradyne computers and comms to whatever projections you think are plausible. The other is to assume that the setting has had an alternate technological development, just as it has had other alternate historical events.
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