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Old 12-21-2014, 11:16 AM   #91
DouglasCole
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Default Re: Bullet Flight Time

Nothing quite as sophisticated as what you suggest. I looked at the bullet velocity for a cross-section of weapons and pick something more or less accurate. I would suggest that something like 70% of mizzle velocity would be a good rule of thumb.

Otherwise, you're going to need to look at the velocity loss rate for any particular around, and figure out where a velocity stands. Another way to do it would just be to look at the average velocity in the bullets second second of flight.
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Old 12-21-2014, 11:43 AM   #92
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Default Re: Bullet Flight Time

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Originally Posted by DouglasCole View Post
Nothing quite as sophisticated as what you suggest. I looked at the bullet velocity for a cross-section of weapons and pick something more or less accurate. I would suggest that something like 70% of mizzle velocity would be a good rule of thumb.

Otherwise, you're going to need to look at the velocity loss rate for any particular around, and figure out where a velocity stands. Another way to do it would just be to look at the average velocity in the bullets second second of flight.
I can find muzzle velocities fairly easily and I've been doing checking into bullet length for the rounds in question to figure out the aspect ratio, but I'm afraid that I have not yet come across much data on the rate of velocity loss or their velocity after a second of flight.

The Sandy Hook Tests of 1879 are excellent resources, of course, and from there I can gather that the .45-70 Government took 21 seconds to reach two miles. Still trying to find data on the velocities and bullet flight times at more sensible ranges of 600-1000 yds, as a Sharps rifle has been recorded as making a killing shot in combat at over that range.

Edit: It seems the .45-70 took 3 to 3.25 seconds to reach a 1000 yds. This argues for making it anywhere from 300-400 yds/second in the 'Bullet Travel' rules on TS p. 32.
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Old 12-24-2014, 04:04 AM   #93
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Default Westley-Richards Cavalry Carbine

I've been going over old British military weapons and while Wilkinson's old unit, the 3rd Scinde Horse, were issued Snider Pattern II carbines, the weapon was famously unpopular with the sowars. As such, I doubt that Wilkinson would have privately acquired that carbine.

At the same time, a very interesting and well-regarded weapon was issued to some British units and it was also available for sale as a sporting weapon. The Westley-Richards Cavalry Carbine / No. 1 Carbine Sporting Rifle in .450 seems an ideal weapon for the early career of Wilkinson.

I'm wondering whether all 25" barrel versions were chambered in .450 Number 1 Carbine or whether they existed in .450 Number 1 Musket*?

This gun is probably also going to figure in the campaign in the hands of hired guns for the villains, who are likely to have found the recently obsolete Westley-Richards easy to acquire as surplus, fairly economical because of it and very suitable for their purposes. So I'll need to stat it out in any case.

The .450 No. 1 Carbine is said to be close to the .45-75 WCF ballistically, so it might be sufficient to use Range and Dmg stats for that round. The Short Rifle/Carbine/Artillery version of the Westley-Richards seems like an Acc 4 / Bulk -5 weapon and I guess reloading time is the same as for the Snider, i.e. Shots 1(3).

*Close enough to the .450 Martini-Henry so that it probably uses the same stats.
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Old 12-27-2014, 01:22 AM   #94
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Default Re: Westley-Richards Cavalry Carbine

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Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
I've been going over old British military weapons and while Wilkinson's old unit, the 3rd Scinde Horse, were issued Snider Pattern II carbines, the weapon was famously unpopular with the sowars. As such, I doubt that Wilkinson would have privately acquired that carbine.
The Snider Pattern II was maybe an unpopular army Rifle, but it can do wonders for hunting due to it powerful shot. He may have one or two laying around for hunting very now and again.
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Old 12-27-2014, 03:54 PM   #95
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Default Re: Westley-Richards Cavalry Carbine

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Originally Posted by SteampengMK-1 View Post
The Snider Pattern II was maybe an unpopular army Rifle, but it can do wonders for hunting due to it powerful shot. He may have one or two laying around for hunting very now and again.
Possibly, but note that the .577 Snider or 24-bore / 25-bore was regarded as a fairly light hunting round when it came to big game. There aren't that many game animals which are too big for an energetic .450 or .500 Express, but thin-skinned enough to make .577 Snider adequate. The Snider is not ideal for elephant, rhino, hippo or big crocodiles, as it is not a good penetrator. It might do for buffalo and gaur, but there are .45 inch and .50 inch loadings that are about as good for that and much more use at long ranges. And in any case, you never want to go after a wounded gaur or Cape buffalo with a barely adequate gun.

In my opinion, young Wilkinson would have been far better served looking for a bargain double gun in a real big game caliber among the effects of officers felled with tropical fevers, ideally a short-barreled weapon that can handle higher than normal shotgun pressures chambered in 16-bore, 12-bore or 10-bore. A cut-rate elephant gun, until the time he obtains his first 8-bore double rifle.
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Old 12-27-2014, 05:03 PM   #96
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Default Re: [Adventure Guns] The gun cabinet of a Victorian explorer, hunter, Col. (Ret.)

Given the impressive size of Wilkinson's gun cabinet in comparison to the campaign's starting wealth, he might want to consider trading one point of Signature Gear for a Cheaper Gear perk. It would seem well-justified by his connections to officers and extensive military and exploratory tours in the British colonies.

As a category, "British Firearms" would work out to what, a -30% discount?
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Old 12-28-2014, 07:30 PM   #97
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Default Re: [Adventure Guns] The gun cabinet of a Victorian explorer, hunter, Col. (Ret.)

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Given the impressive size of Wilkinson's gun cabinet in comparison to the campaign's starting wealth, he might want to consider trading one point of Signature Gear for a Cheaper Gear perk. It would seem well-justified by his connections to officers and extensive military and exploratory tours in the British colonies.

As a category, "British Firearms" would work out to what, a -30% discount?
If it did, it might be worthwhile, but I think that it was less than -30%. I ran the numbers for him belonging to the Army & Navy Co-operative Society Limited and it came out about as a wash, i.e. one point of Cheaper Gear saved about a point in Signature Gear.

In case he ever gets to make other purchases, I suppose it's worth it.
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Old 01-06-2015, 07:28 PM   #98
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Default Cavalry carbines for Col. Wilkinson and his other military rifles

When H. E. Wilkinson joined the army as a young subaltern after being sent down from Oxford, he joined the 3rd Scinde Horse, a cavalry regiment in India.

As an officer, Wilkinson was not issued any gear, but he carried the sword his father had made for him before he left and a privately acquired percussion revolver in 54-bore of a Deane, Adams and Deane pattern, with the Beaumont double action.

While a sporting longarm was a necessity, there is no pressing reason for Wilkinson to buy a long Enfield rifle for that role. It helps if his sporting weapon can use military cartridges, as they are easier to get a hold off in the colonies, but this is less vital for powder and ball weapons, as casting one's own bullets is fairly easy to do and gunpowder is gunpowder.

Also, Wilkinson self-identified as a cavalryman and likes to hunt from horseback. A muzzle-loader with a 39"+ barrel is not exactly a handy weapon for that pursuit, or, for that matter, for stalking in a jungle.

There was a weapon, however, available at the time Wilkinson was sailing for his regiment in India, that would have interested a young sportsman. A capping breech-loading rifle of an innovative make, designed by the great Westley Richards, and recently used to win the Wimbledon Cup. It had been adopted by cavalry regiments of the British army, as well as some volunteers, and was a very sought-after sporting weapon as well.

Even though it used a paper cartridge, the weapon was so successful that it was retained in volunteer and yeoman British service until 1881 and in the hands of experienced hunters and outdoorsmen like the Boers at Bronkhorstspruit and Majuba Hill, in the Transvaal Rebellion, such carbines outshot the longer Martini-Henry Mark II rifles, using a more modern metallic cartridge, quite handily. This is, of course, the wonderful Westley Richards 'Monkey Tail' carbine.

Between 1861-1869, the Monkey Tail carbine was Wilkinson's primary armament when he rode to war and his most versatile sporting weapon as well. The sole drawback would be the difficulty of using paper cartridges during monsoon season in India, which would lead Wilkinson to desiring a complementary short sporting rifle chambered for metallic cartridges for use in bad weathers.

There were accuracy problems with the first Snider conversions of Enfield rifles and various cavalry carbines in British service and these persisted through several redesigns of bullets to fit the rifling of carbine and rifle alike. Wilkinson is thus unlikely to have been much impressed if he fired one of the early conversions, though all the technical problems were eventually solved by various rifle and ammunition designers.

There thus existed at the time some excellent and accurate rifles chambered in .577 Snider, but these were generally sporting arms and not used by the British military, which was trialing entirely new rifle designs and did not require merely a product-improved Snider. Somewhere between 1866-1868, Wilkinson would thus have ordered a civilian model of a Lancaster Oval-Bore Short Rifle in 26-bore, converted to a breechloader chambering the .577 Snider military cartridge, which he could easily obtain from military stores (still easily available in India in 1888). The Lancaster was quite accurate enough for typical hunting distances, say anything under 200 yards, reliable and very easy to clean.

When the cartridge breechloading Westley Richards Model 1869 Sporting Rifle came out, Wilkinson would have recognised in it his ideal weapon of war and sport. I assume he jumped at it as soon as he could afford one, which means that he no doubt had one by 1870. With that fine weapon in hand, Wilkinson could afford to sneer at the ungainly Martini-Henry rifle when it was introduced in 1871, as not only was the barrel far too long for comfortable mounted use, but at any range up to 600 yards, Wilkinson could easily match the accuracy of a Martini-Henry with his Westley Richards carbine.

At around this time, if Wilkinson could afford one, he might consider ordering an Express Rifle in .450 or .500 for longer-range shots than the .450 Westley Richards Carbine No. 1 load can handle, i.e. big game at over 300 yards and any game at more than 600 yards. Westley Richards, of course, made the Model 1871 Sporting Rifle and that might serve the purpose or Wilkinson could order a double Express rifle from someone else through the Army & Navy CLS.

Sometime after 1873, Wilkinson would see a Winchester rifle used and his ideal for a handy rifle for a horseman would forever change. Experiments with a Winchester Model 1873 in .44-40 were favourable at short ranges, but the weapon needed more power to displace the Westley Richards as Wilkinson's primary gun. It was not until the Winchester Model 1876 in .45-75 WCF came out that the lever-gun was indisputably superior in every way than previous incarnations of cavalry carbines. Wilkinson was an early buyer of a rifle-length model with a 26" barrel and became only marginally less enthusiastic about the weapon than Teddy Roosevelt. It was with that Winchester rifle hanging from his saddle that Col. Wilkinson won fame on the Afghan front in 1879.

All the same, even though Wilkinson was an early convert to lever-guns, I expect that he would have obtained a British-made sporting version of a Martini-Henry Mark 1 cavalry carbine at some point before 1888, if only to compare it with his beloved Winchester and find it wanting. Once Col. Wilkinson had a higher income after the war, he bought a new Winchester, a Deluxe pattern Model 1886 chambered in .45-70-500 Government, with a specially chosen 28" barrel, carefully fitted action and other personal touches, which was intended to replace the plain Winchester he used in the war. At the start of play in 1888, however, Wilkinson still has a sentimental fondness for the older Winchester, which he uses like an extension of his arm, and rarely uses the fancier gun.

Addendum about military rifles:
I imagine that Wilkinson obtained a military model Enfield Pattern 1853 Rifle-Musket in 1861-1862 (HT:AG p. 25), which would have been converted to a Snider Pattern I Rifled Musket in 1866-1867 (ibid) and a Martini-Henry Mark I 1871-1872 (HT:AG p. 29); but these would not have been obtained as sporting guns, but for demonstration purposes and to develop and practise his system of bayonet fighting with.

It is also because of his interest in military matters and technological advancement, not a pressing sporting need, that Wilkinson has in the last two years bought a Mauser IG71/84 in 11.15x60mmR Mauser (HT:AG p. 29), a Mannlicher M1886-88 in 8x50mmR Mannlicher (see Steyr-Mannlicher M.88 on HT:AG p. 32, a conversion of a previous rifle with minor differences) and an Enfield magazine rifle in .402 Enfield (see future post).

Incidentally, I cannot for the life of me accept that a Mauser Jägerbüchse Modell 1871 with a 80.5 cm / 31.5" barrel, shooting a 385 grain rifle bullet propelled by 77 grains of high-quality black powder for 1300+ fps can possibly rate Acc 3 as it does on HT:AG p. 29.

Yes, it is a 'carbine' compared to the 85 cm / 33.5" barrel length full-size rifles, but it does not have less mechanical accuracy or practical long-range capability than a Long Rifle / Musket Winchester in .44-40 with a 30" barrel shooting a 200 grain bullet at 1300 fps or a Winchester Model 1876 .45-75 WCF short rifle with a 22" barrel shooting a 350 grain bullet at 1150-1200 fps; both of which are given Acc 4 in GURPS.

It is pretty silly giving any rifled longarm with a reasonable trajectory Acc 3, as this is equal to the Acc you get with most any regular pistol of more than 5" barrel length, assuming that you use a two-handed shooting stance. I'll accept it for short-barrelled carbines that have very low velocities and were known to have accuracy problems at long range, but a rifle in 31.5" barrel length shooting a round that is fully the equal of many other rifle loadings should not have the same Acc as a pistol held in two hands or for that matter a smoothbore whippet or coach shotgun firing round ball ammo.
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Old 01-07-2015, 06:49 AM   #99
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Default GURPS Statistics for New British-made Carbines

Westley Richards Civilian Breechloading Carbine in .450 Westley Richards Caplock:
Dmg: 4d+2 pi+;
Acc: 4;
Range: 450/2,800;
Weight: 7/0.1;
RoF: 1;
Shots: 1(5);
ST: 11†;
Bulk: -5;
Rcl: 5;
Cost: $1,000;


Developed as a competition rifle, the Monkey Tail may be termed a product-improved version of the Whitworth rifle and the barrel is stamped 'Whitworth patent'. There is no evidence that any patent payments were ever made, however, which undoubtedly helped keep the cost down. A Westley Richards carbine in 24" barrel length or higher will usually be Fine (Accurate), this is already assumed in the stats and Cost.

Wilkinson bought a 'Civilian' model with a 25" barrel, but the rifles were also made a 19" and 20" barrel short carbine versions and 36" and 39" Match and Prize versions. The Civilian model is by far the most popular as a sporting gun and most rifles were made in that configuration.

The Cost of these rifles gradually fell from their introduction in the late 1850s, until a fairly typical sporting rifle was available for half price or $500 at the start of the 1880s. A similar Cost progression holds true for the shorter carbines, with them reaching half price or $400 in 1881 as the last British units decommission theirs. Surplus military weapons that have seen hard use may be available for even lower prices, even down to 25% original cost from 1881, as the weapons were sold off to colonial buyers. Prices below this usually mean defects of Malf., HT or HP.

The shorter carbines chamber a load with a reduced powder charge and lighter bullets; these have Acc 3, Dmg 4d-1 pi+, Range 400/2,600, ST: 10†, Bulk -4, Weight 6.6/0.06 and Cost $800. Those carbines do not count as Fine (Accurate), and in realistic terms, Acc 4 probably wouldn't be attainable without getting more velocity than the reduced charge and short barrel give.

A very short-barrelled sporting rifle in 19"-20" barrel version, assembled with more care than the Ordnance-grade weapons and chambered for a full-powered match rifle load with a quick-burning powder, might justify Acc 4 at a Cost of $1,500+ for a custom-made gun (and WPS 0.11 lbs. / CPS $3), but I have found no evidence that such weapons or cartridges were made. Those who wanted long-range accuracy bought versions with 24"+ barrels.

The Match and Prize versions are Very Fine (Accurate) weapons that won the Wimbledon Cup every year until the rules were changed so that they were no longer eligible to compete. Match and Prize rifles have Acc 5, Dmg 5d pi+, Range 550/3,500, Bulk -6, Weight 9/0.11 and Cost $2,500. Match and Prize rifles were made for the Ordnance in a very plain military version.

They were also often bought by civilian target shooters and a fairly typical sporting model costs $3,000 and is better finished than the military weapon, so that the fine worksmanship gives +1 Reaction (see Styling). An individual buyer might order it with various personal touches, engraving and a fancier finish; Cost $5,000 for Styling +2 rifle and $10,000 for Styling +3.

The Monkey Tail was during its production history chambered for several extremely similar loads, which I've elected to call .450 Westley Richards caplock (actual bullet caliber ranged from .447 to .457 inch). These have WPS 0.1 lbs. and CPS $1, for the basic rifle round, a 480 grain bullet propelled by 70 grains of black powder.

Variations large enough to have a game effect were a carbine load of a 400 grain bullet and 55 grains of black powder (WPS 0.07 lbs.; CPS $0.9) and a match load of a 530 grain bullet and 85 grains of black powder (WPS 0.11 lbs.; CPS $2). In a pinch it is usually possible to chamber all types in a given weapon.

The Monkey Tail has the Malf. 17 common to metallic cartridge weapons, as its paper cartridges are stiff and the action quite reliable under range conditions. Under field conditions, some of the problems evident with the Whitworth barrel plague the rifle, see HT:AG p. 26. As these rifles are breech-loaders and not muzzleloaders and Westley Richards made improvements in ammunition design for the peculiarities of the Whitworth barrels, the problems are less severe than those of its predecessor.

The primary negative effect of the precision rifling of the barrel is to reduce Malf. to 16 after 15 shots have been fired in rapid succession, to Malf. 15 after 30 shots and to Malf. 14 after 60 shots, by which time the weapon requires a thorough scouring. This takes two minutes. If the weapon is quickly swabbed out after every fifth shot or so (takes 10 seconds or 5 seconds with a successful Guns (Rifle) skill roll), the number of shots before a penalty accumulates may be doubled. In turn, humid conditions, such as in India during the monsoon, halve the number of shots that may be fired in close succession before Malf. is reduced.

Reloading speed is not affected as badly as with the muzzleloading Whitworth, as the load does not need to be forced down the muzzle, but is inserted at the breech. All the same, once the weapon has been fired enough in succession to have reached Malf. 15, Shots goes to 1(6) to account for fouling in the action which causes stiffness and once it has reached Malf. 14, Shots become 1(8).

For a sporting rifle in a fairly benign climate, the need for careful cleaning between uses and the tendency to foul when dozens of rounds are fired in quick succession are not particularly serious drawbacks. The carbine's intolerance for a monsoon climate during significant parts of the year and the problems with rapid fire during sustained engagements were, however, not insignificant in a military setting.

Period sources agree that despite the undoubted superiority of the weapon over competitors in accuracy and handiness, these drawbacks prevented its wider military adoption among British cavalry and formed an insurmountable obstacle to the designining of an infantry rifle based on the carbines for general service.

Lancaster Oval-Bore Short Rifle in .577 Snider:
Dmg: 4d(0.5) pi++;
Acc: 4;
Range: 200/2,000;
Weight: 8.8/0.1;
RoF: 1;
Shots: 1(3);
ST: 10†;
Bulk: -5;
Rcl: 4;
Cost: $1,100;


The Board of Ordnance adopted this 'carbine' / short rifle in limited numbers for the Royal Engineers, Sappers and some volunteer regiments. When it was adopted, it was a muzzleloader, but these weapons were among the first to be converted to breechloaders using the Snider conversion after 1866.

The Lancaster Oval-Bore barrel appears to be a smoothbore to the inattentive observer, but with appropriate bullet design and fit, oval rifling makes for equivalent accuracy to contemporary match and competition barrels with more visible rifling. The oval rifling reduces fouling and serves to make the weapon easier to clean, important in a humid climate like India. The game effects are to make cleaning the gun take only half the time needed for a comparable gun with a more traditional barrel.

All Ordnance models were 25-bore (Acc 3; Cost $600 for a Snider-converted version), but after the military weapons were converted to use .577 Snider, a reduced-bore version in 26-bore was popular on the civilian market. These can still chamber the .577 Snider round, but the tighter fit fixes problems with the military Snider bullet not engaging properly with the rifling. These civilian versions were highly regarded for accuracy and if the Martini-Henry had not been adopted in 1871, a military version in 26-bore might have been issued to the British army as a whole.

The military Lancasters were generally the 29.15" barrel Royal Engineer Short Rifle, but 29"-31.5" varieties were popular with volunteer regiments (Bulk -6, Dmg 4d+1(0.5) pi++, Range 200/2,100). Wilkinson ordered a 26" barrel, as a compromise between his desire for a short and easily manuevered sporting gun and the need for a long barrel to get decent velocity for the heavy Snider bullet. Wilkinson's weapon is Fine (Accurate), already reflected in the stats.

Westley Richards Model 1869 Sporting Rifle / Carbine, in .450 Westley Richards No. 1 Carbine:
Dmg: 4d pi+;
Acc: 4;
Range: 350/2,800;
Weight: 7.9/0.09;
RoF: 1;
Shots: 1(3);
ST: 10†;
Bulk: -5;
Rcl: 4;
Cost: $700;


This is a 24" barrel sporting weapon in a short rifle / carbine configuration. It chambers a shorter round than the full-sized rifle, which was a competitor to the Martini-Henry and fires a round which has the same GURPS stats (except WPS 0.12 lbs. and CPS $1.5).

Ballistically, the .450 Westley Richards Carbine No. 1 is very similar to the .45-75 WCF. From the 24" barrel, the 380 grain bullet does get a slightly higher velocity than the 350 grain bullet from a 22" barrel Winchester Model 1876 short rifle (1300 fps vs. 1150-1200 fps). This, combined with the Westley Richards No. 1 Carbine bullet design retaining velocity slightly better at longer ranges (it's fractionally longer and thus has better sectional density), means that the Westley Richards gets a modest improvement in Dmg and Range over the Winchester.

The WPS for the Westley Richards Carbine No. 1 round is 0.09 lbs. and the CPS is $1.

Martini-Henry Carbine, Cavalry Mark 1, in .450 MH Carbine:
Dmg: 4d pi+;
Acc: 4;
Range: 500/3,100;
Weight: 7.6/0.11;
RoF: 1;
Shots: 1(3);
ST: 10†;
Bulk: -5;
Rcl: 4;
Cost: $500;


This weapon is not dissimilar to the Springfield M1873 Carbine, with a 21.375" to the 21.5" barrel of the Springfield and using a reduced power load compared to the service rifle. The Martini-Henry carbine uses 70 grains of black powder to drive a streamlined 410 grain bullet around 100 fps faster at the muzzle (and much faster at 300 yds) than the fairly ballistically unimpressive 405 grain bullet from the Springfield carbine. In GURPS terms, it translates into edging out Acc 4, as the Winchster Model 1876 in 22" barrel length does in HT:AG.
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Old 02-01-2015, 07:21 AM   #100
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Default Re: [Adventure Guns] The gun cabinet of a Victorian explorer, hunter, Col. (Ret.)

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Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
The Army & Navy Cooperative Society Ltd. (CLS) is indeed the source of many of the Colonel's weapons between 1873-1881. They were founded in 1871, but didn't offer firearms until 1873.

There were illustrated price lists of their gun stock from the earliest days, but I haven't found those on the Internet, more is the pity.
I have been trying to find these through the second-hand book trade, but have only got back as far as 1907 so far. I have got a reprint of the 1895 Harrods illustrated price list, but that does not have guns, or more general sporting goods.
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