All sorts of Duplication questions

[kirbwarrior]

Construct 2 +160% is a house-ruled enhancement that you get all the benefits of Construct and no Construct (namely, there is no true you, with Dupe 2 either one could spend 10FP to get the other back). It basically has Cosmic +100% for breaking a rule. It hasn't seemed overpowered, but I don't know, what does the hivemind think?

I've always felt that Duplicated Gear was overpriced for only applying to Signature Gear, but I've also yet to use it. +100% equates to 35pts and I can't think of a time I'll have more than 35pts of sig gear (and usually 5 or less!) so it would just be cheaper to rebuy the SG than the enhancement. Does anyone have thoughts on its price? How much would it make sense to apply to all gear? Or even to everything carried (so it can dupe other people, even unwillingly)?

I love Payload (Cosmic: Dimensional Pocket +50%) a lot. But with Duplication it feels like any dupe could get an item from the payload. Would it be a fair feature that instead of each Dupe getting a payload, they share one pocket? I can't tell if the loss of extra room balances out the ability to 'warp' items indirectly.

From Fire Emblem I saw a very cool version of Duplication which effectively has 'Location Only' on it. Instead of fully creating a clone, you just are now defined to be in multiple locations at once (with the action economy of that many Dupes). Your dupes have one pool of HP, FP, etc. Equipment is shared among the dupes, but also moves around on them; If I fast draw a sword, all my dupes are wielding it, and if I get disarmed, all dupes lose the sword and it falls to the ground where it was disarmed. Would this be a fair feature of Duplication (the downsides of all dupes getting stunned, knocked out, mind controlled, etc at once seems plenty to balance out any upsides, but I could see it being more or even less expensive)?

To Duplicate at a range, adding Ranged seems to be the obvious solution. However, how would Affliction (Duplication w/ Ranged) work? Without modifiers would I just put the target's dupe somewhere within 100yds of the target?

On that note, Affliction (Duplication, Area Effect, Emanation) seems like a pretty cheap way to not only copy everything I'm carrying, but do the same for everyone near me (I should probably get Selective Area...). Is there any complications from that I'm not seeing aside from time limit (which Permanent and Cancellation deal with easily)? If I do use Cancellation on someone else, do I decide which dupes disappear?

With Affliction (Duplication w/Multiplication), I assume I spend the FP. With people the noncombat aspect makes sense, but how does that work with objects (which don't really 'enter combat')? How much would 'Multiplication Only' be worth (I'm assuming not -80%)?

Thanks for the help ahead of time, I know it's a lot.

EDIT: I knew I forgot one. Since all dupes get all traits, I'm assuming advantages bought as gadgets are copied without any need for enhancements, right? If I have an item that is supposed to be unique that can't be cloned even with supernatural powers, how much of a limitation would that be on the gadget?

[Refplace]

The Payload with Cosmic seems reasonable, maybe +100% instead of +50% for the extra dimensional space.

[kirbwarrior]

Originally Posted by Refplace

The Payload with Cosmic seems reasonable, maybe +100% instead of +50% for the extra dimensional space.

Are you saying it should be 100% for this effect, or 100% in general? I think I've seen it at 50% before, but I don't recall where.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by kirbwarrior

Are you saying it should be 100% for this effect, or 100% in general? I think I've seen it at 50% before, but I don't recall where.

Its +50% for a pocket dimension. Im saying an extra+50% for being able to draw from for each duplicate a that adds a lot of extra utility. Compare that to the +100% for duplicating Signature Gear.

[Anaraxes]

A shared Payload is (to my way of thinking) tremendously more value than a Payload. Payload is just extra carrying capacity. Nice, but generally not game-changing. It's also dirt cheap, at 1 point/level (so the recommended 5 levels before GM permission is half BL for 5 points). Cosmic for a dimensional pocket is quite useful in most game contexts, as it renders the contents undetectable by most means. +50% of 5 points is still only 3 points.

But another 3 points to be able to share that Payload access among a group of people? Sign me up. Send in the thief to extract the entire bank vault, with the fighter just unloading the Payload as fast as the thief can shovel things in the other end. Add in a servant back at the castle to have access to everything you own (the whole wand collection, all your gold without risk, etc). No possibility of being unequipped ever again, as there's always someone back in town to do your shopping. Instant communication over any distance. Risk-free pickpocketing. Get Thanos' glove off momentarily, and it's separated from him for good. Put FedEx out of business with instant courier service. And it's just a few points extra.

The instant transfer between characters is far more valuable than the storage or weight capacity. That's probably better paid for by buying Warp with a couple of Limitations like "only items inside Payload" and "only to Dupes".

[kirbwarrior]

Originally Posted by Refplace

Its +50% for a pocket dimension. Im saying an extra+50% for being able to draw from for each duplicate a that adds a lot of extra utility. Compare that to the +100% for duplicating Signature Gear.

Gotcha. Considering regular Payload 'increases' in size with Duplication, would it be a limitation on this if the Payload doesn't increase in size?

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

A shared Payload is (to my way of thinking) tremendously more value than a Payload. Payload is just extra carrying capacity. Nice, but generally not game-changing. It's also dirt cheap, at 1 point/level (so the recommended 5 levels before GM permission is half BL for 5 points). Cosmic for a dimensional pocket is quite useful in most game contexts, as it renders the contents undetectable by most means. +50% of 5 points is still only 3 points.

But another 3 points to be able to share that Payload access among a group of people? Sign me up. Send in the thief to extract the entire bank vault, with the fighter just unloading the Payload as fast as the thief can shovel things in the other end. Add in a servant back at the castle to have access to everything you own (the whole wand collection, all your gold without risk, etc). No possibility of being unequipped ever again, as there's always someone back in town to do your shopping. Instant communication over any distance. Risk-free pickpocketing. Get Thanos' glove off momentarily, and it's separated from him for good. Put FedEx out of business with instant courier service. And it's just a few points extra.

The instant transfer between characters is far more valuable than the storage or weight capacity. That's probably better paid for by buying Warp with a couple of Limitations like "only items inside Payload" and "only to Dupes".

I could see that. Warp does have some oddities about it for this, but since I recently discovered that it only takes +50% to get rid of things like 'preparation' or 'distance', it's easy enough to fix. Maybe it could be base Warp with Exoteleport up to your Payload limit to 'warp' your payload to your dupe's?

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by kirbwarrior

Construct 2 +160% is a house-ruled enhancement that you get all the benefits of Construct and no Construct (namely, there is no true you, with Dupe 2 either one could spend 10FP to get the other back). It basically has Cosmic +100% for breaking a rule. It hasn't seemed overpowered, but I don't know, what does the hivemind think?

As luck would have it, I was thinking about this just this morning in relation to a character I was tinkering with and searched the forum to see if it had been addressed before.

Construct is one of those uncommon enhancements that adds an inherent limitation not present in the base advantage. With base Duplication, you can summon another you that is just as ‘real’ as you are. If you are killed while Duplicated, the other you is hurt, but is still alive. The Construct enhancement means YOU aren’t hurt if your dupe is, but BOTH of you are killed if the real you is killed. In a sense, you are getting meat shield versions of the D&D spell Mirror Image (with greater utility, of course). Considering the question “What is it worth if there is no true you, just like in the base advantage?”, I first thought that it was just a flat cost equal to adding the Construct enhancement to yourself, as though you were a Duplicate (Duplicate 0), so +21 points. I reasoned that you weren’t changing anything with the other Constructs, just removing a vulnerability from the ‘original’. Thinking about it some more, it now seems to me that you are also enhancing the Constructs, because they no longer have YOU as a vulnerability. This makes me think that maybe you should be enhancing the Construct Enhancement rather than the Duplication advantage. The +100% Cosmic looks like it is appropriate but applied to Construct instead. The total enhancement would be +120% to Duplication, making the enhanced Constructs cost 77 pts each. That seems crazy expensive to me, but there you go. You might want to look at Kromm’s Ally build as an alternative.

[kirbwarrior]

Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery

The +100% Cosmic looks like it is appropriate but applied to Construct instead. The total enhancement would be +120% to Duplication, making the enhanced Constructs cost 77 pts each. That seems crazy expensive to me, but there you go. You might want to look at Kromm’s Ally build as an alternative.

That's actually cheaper than what I came up with. At +160% it's still less than ATR. My reasoning for putting in on the advantage itself instead of doubling Construct was that you are getting both the benefits of Construct and not., or basically weighing the benefits of another regular dupe with making the construct get the upsides of the regular dupe.

Also, I did get Powers the Weird. Yep, it's really is just a +50% enhancement. Blows my mind.