Gurps is dying a slow death

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Shouldn't Powers+Magic be enough if combined?

Probably not. GURPS doesn't really support either competitive play or beer and pretzels gaming. I'd say that a GURPS Munchkin is completely impossible in any meaningful way. Besides Toon already supports it very well.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Probably not. GURPS doesn't really support either competitive play or beer and pretzels gaming. I'd say that a GURPS Munchkin is completely impossible in any meaningful way. Besides Toon already supports it very well.

Okay, I was merely recalling silly things like M.U.N.C.H.K.I.N. and various spell tricks.

[rishi]

Originally Posted by Facial Tentacles

They have a whole rack devoted to Munchkin. Perhaps SJG should do a GURPS: Munchkin.

An RPG about a cardgame about an RPG? Sounds like a movie-book based on a movie that is based on a book :P

Originally Posted by dgrm4

The question is: HOW CAN WE PULL TOGETHER AND REVERSE THIS TREND?

*shrug* Mainstream sensibilities ebb and flow like a 6 year old's temperament.

Just as a musician shouldn't compose a song for anybody but himself (and if other people resonate with the emotions expressed and like the song, too, all the better), a game designer should primarily be worried about how they themselves will want to play the game. How the mainstream processes and reacts to your work (music, writing, painting) should be secondary to how you digest and appreciate your own work. In that sentiment, SJG should design games that their designers and testers most want to play. And when it makes its way out to the world and other people (like us) dig it, everyone wins. If SJG were to react to every trend and fan, their products would lack continuity, consistency, and true artistic vision (which I find are strengths of most of their products).

Now, as the players of these games, and witnesses to their decline, we can help to reverse that. It's got nothing to do with SJG's release schedule, advertising strategy, or promotional events. RPGs don't just need a new brand or gimmick.

Personally, I think the lessened interest in RPGs has to do with larger cultural trends like entrainment to high technology and the erosion of empathy. So, all I can do is seek people out who might resonate with me on the way I approach gaming and also try to cultivate those things in my close friends. Critical thinking, empathy (standing in others' shoes), imagination, and improvisation are all skills that are essential to the human experience and tabletop RPGs are a playground for developing those skills (like playing cops-and-robbers or with barbies as a kid). Role-playing is used in novel ways to assist all kinds of psychological treatments and I think everyone can harness those benefits in their own life.

So, I guess my point is: instead of asking what our publisher can do for us, we should consider what we as a gamer can do for all publishers and gamers.

[nanoboy]

I would personally like to see a bigger SJGames presence on social networking sites, like Facebook, but I don't know that in the end it would help overall sales.

[Sunrunners_Fire]

Originally Posted by nanoboy

I would personally like to see a bigger SJGames presence on social networking sites, like Facebook, but I don't know that in the end it would help overall sales.

Other than having a page on those sites, what, specifically, do you want them to be doing that they aren't already? They blog, they tweet, they maintain multiple websites, they maintain forums, they ...

What more do you wish them to do?

[Delvidian]

The advent of electronic publishing has allowed me to spend MORE money on GURPS books, not less. I've purchased almost all of the printed 4/e titles, since they are core books I'll refer to repeatedly or appreciate for their beauty. As for the specialty or genre titles, I can't say I'd have purchased as many of them if I had to pay more or find a place to store them. In fact, at this point, I even think I have more PDF versions of 3/e titles than print versions.

I think the print & PDF strategy makes a lot of sense. And when I buy print, I make sure I buy it at my FLGS (Compleat Strategist, NYC). I feel like I need to end this post by saying how much I love America.

[dgrm4]

I have some marketing experience as a business owner. SJG is not marketing Gurps to new customers, only to existing customers. This is the death nail in a product line. I am not joking about this. If you want your beloved game to survive then all of you and ME need to make some SERIOUS NOISE and get SJG attention!

[Sunrunners_Fire]

Originally Posted by dgrm4

I have some marketing experience as a business owner. SJG is not marketing Gurps to new customers, only to existing customers. This is the death nail in a product line. I am not joking about this. If you want your beloved game to survive then all of you and ME need to make some SERIOUS NOISE and get SJG attention!

I shall be blunt: You have no idea what you are talking about. You appear to be ignorant of what it is that they are doing, the hows and whys of what they are doing and the results they are getting from what is being done.

You want them to do more than (what you think) they are doing. We get it.

Go plead your case to Steve Jackson himself. Forums are sound and fury, and honestly, really should be ignored when they try giving advice on how to run a business. You want to be taken seriously? Go here. Write down the mailing address. Send your proposal to them directly, as a fully supported writeup with numbers and projections and charts and power point presentations and inside jokes and everything.

Likely Result: Once they're done laughing at you for trying to tell them how to run their successful multi-million dollar company, they'll send you a nice form letter thanking you for your interest and that they will give your suggestion all due consideration so that you can walk away feeling like you did something.

[nanoboy]

Originally Posted by Sunrunners_Fire

Other than having a page on those sites, what, specifically, do you want them to be doing that they aren't already? They blog, they tweet, they maintain multiple websites, they maintain forums, they ...

What more do you wish them to do?

Posting things on occasion would be nice. I subscribed a while back, but I never see anything.

[giant.robot]

I'd go the other direction. I think PDF publishing is one of the best things to ever happen to gaming. Not only is it convenient for me as a customer but makes good money for publishers like SJG. It costs SJG way more to get a hardcover book in your hands than a PDF from e23.

Let's take the reportedly low selling Low Tech hardcover as an example. SJG as a publisher can expect to make about 30% of the MSRP for each copy of a book sold. This has to pay for the pre-press, administration, and production costs of the book's whole run. Let's say Low Tech cost about $5,000 (made up number) in pre-press costs including writing, editing, artwork, and layout. If the MSRP is $30 then it will take 500 copies of the book being sold just to cover that cost. A print run of 1000 books will cost a few thousand dollars which adds enough to SJG's costs that selling all 1000 copies might just cover the cost of that book's production. That's just to break even!

A book like Low Tech is only going to appeal to a fraction of the GURPS player base, likely selling only a single copy for every 50 copies of the Basic Set. PDF sales also allow things like Monster Hunters or Action to even exist. They're not likely to sell in volumes that would support a print run but can easily recoup costs when sold as a next to zero reproduction cost PDF.

Moving to PDF publishing for GURPS is what will let it survive another decade. Printing hard covers is really expensive and can years for costs to be recouped. Selling the exact same book as a PDF through e23 will only need a fraction of the sales to recoup costs and start actually generating a profit.

I agree that expanding the GURPS player base would be good for us all but don't fall not the MBA trap of assuming a business is only healthy when it's growing by some unsustainable amount. You can have sales contract but by lowering costs, like selling PDFs rather than printing books, those lower sales numbers can make just as much if not more money than the previous business model. SJG has more to gain by courting gamers with laptops and iPads rather than ones that want shelves full of hardcovers.

SJG would only hurt itself obsessing about the shelf space dedicated to GURPS books. Stores are going to stock things prominently that are going to make them the most money. This means they're going to to have large sections with board games, Warhammer, and Magic with a tiny corner dedicated to RPGs. GURPS is never going to outsell Paizo and WotC's offerings. Theres little point in getting caught up in that particular uphill battle. SJG likely gets more sales for GURPS by having people looking to buy Munchkin at their website than books sitting on shelves at a game store.