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Old 10-17-2009, 12:19 AM   #1
Jason
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Boston, MA
Default Elohite objectivity

To what extent does an Elohite's "objectivity" need to involve the suppression of sincere emotion?

We know that Elohim FEEL emotion; they can have passions, loved ones, and so on. (Heck, you practically HAVE to love in order to be an angel.) It's just dissonant for them to make decisions based on emotion rather than logic. I'm wondering what really counts as a "decision" in this context, though, and whether the objectively reasonable thing to do is ever to allow oneself to process or purge emotions.

For instance, if an Elohite knows for a fact that complaining about work to a fellow angel over a beer will make him feel better and thus make him a more productive worker, without disrupting that other angel's work or faith, could he do that? (And if you say yes, would the answer differ if the scenario were an Elohite going with sincerity to private confession with a mortal priest who never sees his face?)

I guess part of this question for me is teasing apart what the Elohite nature, as written in the rules, is really about. To me, someone who can read others' emotions, even predict others' actions, but must keep one's own actions and emotions in check, isn't necessarily best described as objective, but as calculating. I wonder, then, when it's okay to follow through with a calculation that involves displaying sincere emotion. Must it correspond with the goal of affecting or manipulating someone else as well?
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Old 10-17-2009, 04:57 AM   #2
Acolyte
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
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Default Re: Elohite objectivity

I think a good example here is the "favorite color."

Let's say an Elohite likes the color green. Who knows why? Why does anyone (celestial or otherwise) develop likes and dislikes? Not important. The Elohite likes green. After a recent brush with demons, the Elohite's shirt was destroyed, or mostly so, and he's in a store buying a new shirt. If two shirts are 100% equivalent in any meaningful way the angel can detect (quality of material, how well it will hold up in the next battle, cost, etc), he can freely opt to buy the green one instead of the red one, because he likes green. He's chosen based on emotions, but emotions haven't trumped reason. Now, if the green shirt is blatantly overpriced, or clearly of inferior quality, choosing it WOULD create dissonance, because the angel let his emotional attachment to the color green sway him into making an illogical choice.

Of course, in an RPG there's very little reason to RP through that kind of mundane decision (possible exceptions for Servitors of Trade, or Wind if the Elohite's just gonna steal it because it's faster *grin*). However it does serve as an interesting example of a legal (aka non-dissonant) expression of emotion.

If you extrapolate to a much more dramatic situation, an Elohite is trapped in a burning building with a child and an adult with a broken leg. The Elohite can probably survive a trip through the flames carrying one of them, maybe two trips. The building is going to collapse at any second, though, so even if he can make two trips he might not be able to. The child is a friendly and likable sort whose company the Elohite genuinely enjoys. The adult is a sarcastic, loud, annoying, bitter man who is nonetheless a Soldier of God (possibly his negative personality comes from his time as a Soldier putting him in too many situations like this *grin*). In this situation, a Mercurian or a human would probably grab the kid he liked (and a kid in general, with the natural human impulse to rescue children) and dash out through the flames. The Elohite, however, cannot be swayed at all by his personal affection for the child. He MUST come to an objective decision, and quickly--possibly factors include the amount of good each could do over their remaining lifespans, usefulness in the War, the "grace" state of each soul (if the child is a good kid, him dying now would probably lead to his soul going to Heaven...), the emotional impact on each one after being chosen to survive if the other fails (would saving the Soldier cause him to forsake the cause of God altogether if he sees an angel acting so "inhumanely" as to leave a child to the flames?), and so on. However, the Elohite has to make A decision; letting both die would clearly be an suboptimal situation. The Elohite has to synthesize his knowledge of the situation, the "standing orders" of his Superior and other bosses, and the emotional state of the people involved, all rapidly, to arrive at the logically optimal situation unswayed by his personal dislike of the Soldier or attachment to the kid--however, Elohim are DESIGNED, literally, for these sorts of judgment scenarios; while they might prefer more time to analyze all things fully, they are capable of making the hard decisions other angels stress over.

It's hard to say which of those choices would be best. If the Elohite served Christopher, saving the kid's definitely best. If the Elohite's resonance reveals that taking the Soldier over the kid would push the Soldier into losing his will to serve Heaven, saving the kid's also definitely best. If the Elohite's direct orders are to protect the Soldier, letting the kid burn is most likely the best scenario. To refer back to the green shirt, if the Elohite sees it as a dead heat, he can make the emotional decision to save the kid, though he had better be really sure in his estimation both decisions are equally good. It's up to the Elohite to make the decision, and the GM to determine if the player had the PC make an emotional decision.

--

All that said, though, there is something about the Elohim that I as a GM and player have a difficulty with--over-rationalization. It is a very, very, very human trait to make a decision based on emotions and then come up with a logic to support it (this is definitely at work in bad science, like the Intelligent Design "theory", or sensationalist opinions, like 9/11 "Truthers"). I do this myself a lot--convincing myself that I'm actually not doing as well as I am in a board game so that I can more easily con the other players into focusing on stopping an opponent (although this is almost Balseraphic), or just coming up with reasons to stay in bed late on a weekend.

The problem is that these are rarely so blatant, and are pretty darn insidious. When an Elohite's player starts coming up with a large number of reasons to do something, it can be hard to sort out which are actually relevant and which are the result of over-rationalization. In the above example, at a gaming table I would have a hard time making a snap decision to leave a kid in a burning building alone, and would probably work myself around to convincing myself that the "logical" choice would be to save the kid, even when there are situations where it wouldn't be at all. That's because I'm a human, not an Elohite; and I could tell a GM that I was in fact acting logically to support my emotional decision. When playing or GMing an Elohite, how do you keep from succumbing to this over-rationalization in situations where it's not obvious that bad logic is being employed?
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Old 10-17-2009, 07:25 AM   #3
JCD
 
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Default Re: Elohite objectivity

How silly you humans are.

Of course you take the kid. He has less body mass, therefore

a) he is quicker to move thereby increasing the probability of two trips

b) more susceptible to heat extremes and smoke inhalation

c) has a longer life span for work in society, which is more likely to be grace based due to the guilty moral onus put upon him

d) makes better copy in newspapers to sway people to unselfishness.

e) IF the Soldier survives (and he's likely to get to Heaven anyway) his faith might very well be renewed.
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Old 10-17-2009, 12:34 PM   #4
Regis
 
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Default Re: Elohite objectivity

This is something that my Elohite PC has had problems with recently. Under his role as the third priest of Amun-Ra in ancient Egypt, he had a run-in with the second priest of Amun-Ra, the Pharaoh's nephew. Icosiel, my character, hated this man instantly. He had achieved his position through nepotism, was utterly disinterested in the faith he represented and could not conceive that anyone else might be interested in it either. This character was universally christened 'Bastard-Face' after he didn't get named for too long. And, I cannot stress this enough Icosiel hated him with a burning passion entirely unsuited to his nature. I'm told, in fact, that he was designed with this conflict in mind.

Icosiel set out to destroy Bastard-Face. The man hated him, this was clear, and would use his political influence to destroy any chance Icosiel had of getting close to the Pharaoh and influencing him. Clearly, for the good of his mission, Bastard-Face had to be removed from his position. The fact that Icosiel would really, really enjoy it was a bonus.

Icosiel has yet to become dissonant for this quest, but he's been treading a thin line. Lack of faith makes him angry. Challenging Destiny makes him angry. It's a cold anger, almost indistinguishable from calm, but he feels it. If there is no logical reason to do something, he does not do it. That is currently his only defence, that he lets logic guide his actions and have the ultimate veto. It remains to be seen how far he will reach if truly provoked.
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Old 10-18-2009, 10:41 PM   #5
Jason
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Boston, MA
Default Re: Elohite objectivity

Hm, thought I'd posted a reply, but apparently it was lost to the ether...

Anyway, thanks for the helpful responses. I suppose it's good to keep in mind that "not acting on subjectivity" doesn't necessarily mean "making the best-calculated choice possible"; it just means that some calculus besides one's own desires was used.
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Old 10-18-2009, 11:35 PM   #6
Rocket Man
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Default Re: Elohite objectivity

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason View Post
Hm, thought I'd posted a reply, but apparently it was lost to the ether...

Anyway, thanks for the helpful responses. I suppose it's good to keep in mind that "not acting on subjectivity" doesn't necessarily mean "making the best-calculated choice possible"; it just means that some calculus besides one's own desires was used.
Exactly. They represent God's objective judgment, just as the Seraphim represent His Truth and the Cherubim His devoted love ... but since none of those three Choirs *are* God, there are going to be times when they encompass their ideal less-than-perfectly, even if they don't commit dissonance.

An Elohite knows he can keep himself closer to that heavenly ideal if he takes his *self* out of the equation. But that still doesn't mean that he's always going to be right, just that he's facing the facts before making his decision.
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