06-12-2013, 03:48 AM | #1 |
Join Date: Dec 2009
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off hand weapon training perk and technique
In a PbP, I had a player who took broadsword to 13, then put 5 points in dual-weapon training and 1 point in off-hand weapon training perk. For 6 cp he now can fight with 2 swords and effectively has a double attack.
He was kind enough to remove it after I told him that I thought it would make his character overpowered compared to the others, but it still bugs me. Was this legal? Why wouldn't everyone do this? (Except for when it doesn't fit the character concept.). My best argument rulewise would be that I don't use the martial arts in my campaign. However, what I understand from its description is that it replaces the off-hand weapon training from the basic set because the latter was underpowered. If it replaces the technique, isn't the technique a kind of 'bug' in the basic set, or does it still have a function? |
06-12-2013, 04:01 AM | #2 | |
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: One Mile Up
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Re: off hand weapon training perk and technique
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06-12-2013, 05:02 AM | #3 |
GURPS FAQ Keeper
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kyïv, Ukraine
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Re: off hand weapon training perk and technique
OHWT as a Technique is extremely overpriced when compared to Ambidexterity.
Also, in addition to DWA being cinematic, it effectively doubles the cost of all weapon upgrades. |
06-12-2013, 05:15 AM | #4 | |
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: On the road again...
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Re: off hand weapon training perk and technique
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Plus, even the cinematic fighters who use two weapons don't usually use two full-sized broadswords in the off hand; the off hand or both hands usually have a lighter weapon (broadsword and shortsword, rapier and main-gauche, paired sais, paired shortswords, etc.), not two large weapons.
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06-12-2013, 05:20 AM | #5 | ||
GURPS FAQ Keeper
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kyïv, Ukraine
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Re: off hand weapon training perk and technique
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06-12-2013, 06:05 AM | #6 | |||
Join Date: Sep 2012
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Re: off hand weapon training perk and technique
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Basic Set, p. 417 Dual Weapon Attack You must use All-out-Attack (Double) which means no active defense. If you use Attack maneuver you gain -4 penalty on primary hand and -8 on off hand attack. (In case of your player his skill drops from Broadsword -13 to Broadsword-9 and Broadsword-5.) Dual-Weapon Training cost 5 points and Off-hand Training costs 5 points. Both DWT and OHWT are bought per skill. Not really cheap. If this is a problem you could let him have a less effective skills. DWT and OHWT only buys half of penalties. So you have -2 on primary weapon and -4 with off-hand weapon. He will still be able to use two weapons but at a price. He is sacrificing something to get the benefits. Quote:
For example: You could increase your shield skill by 2. Shield gives you DB on all active defense rolls while a weapon allows you only parry and very few weapons grant bonus on parry. Shield also gives you DB against muscle-powered ranged attacks. Shield grants cover. Quote:
Some people don't want to have ambidexterity because idea is they put hard work, blood, sweat and tears to be able to preform dual-style. That is why they made it a perk. A person who wants to play a swashbuckler is able to do without the need to cash out 15-30 CP on OHWT. Last edited by Orochi-art; 06-12-2013 at 07:41 AM. |
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06-12-2013, 07:31 AM | #7 | |||
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cambridge, MA
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Re: off hand weapon training perk and technique
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06-12-2013, 07:40 AM | #8 |
Join Date: Apr 2013
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Re: off hand weapon training perk and technique
There are four ways to make multiple attacks:
1) AoA (Double) allows two attacks without penalty but sacrifices defense. 2) Extra Attack allows two attacks with different weapons (unless Multistrike is bought) without penalty but costs [25]. 3) Rapid Strike allows two attacks at -6 each, or -3 with appropriate Weapon Master or Trained By A Master. 4) DWA allows two attacks at a -4 & -8 penalty, which may be reduced for a single weapon by DWA technique [5] + OFWT [1]. Ambidexterity [5] can replace the OFWT. A DWA against a single opponent also has a bonus -1 Deceptive Attack. The real comparison is between DWA and a Rapid Strike either with a shield or using a 2H weapon. So, assuming DX 12, here goes: A) Using two broadswords ($600*2=$1200) at skill DX+2 [8], an additional [8] DWA will give you two attacks at 14, a -1 Deceptive, two parries at 10 or one at 12 with Cross-Parry, and [2] left over. B) Using a broadsword and medium shield ($600+60=$660) at DX+2 [8+4], an additional [4] will give you an attack at 15 or two at 9, a 12 parry and a 12 block (usable against arrows!). I'm ignoring using the shield as a weapon, you shouldn't. C) Using a Greatsword ($900) at DX+2 [8] an additional [8] will give an attack at 16 or two attacks at 10, 11 parry, and +2 damage. C is better against heavily armored targets, B is cheapest and better against archers, and A is best against lightly armored targets. What else? I haven't mentioned reach because rapiers and katanas can match the greatsword. Using a shield makes an unbalaced weapon (Morning Star!!!) reasonable. It also adds to Dodge, which can be very nice when the incoming attacks are en masse. For cost just get a Spear, with a Weapon Adaptation perk you can use it with Staff skill for the parry bonus. |
06-12-2013, 07:43 AM | #9 |
GURPS FAQ Keeper
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kyïv, Ukraine
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Re: off hand weapon training perk and technique
Huh? You still need to pay for two cool big weapons, hope that neither of them gets damaged, and pay double when you want to upgrade them.
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06-12-2013, 07:48 AM | #10 |
Untagged
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Forest Grove, Beaverton, Oregon
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Re: off hand weapon training perk and technique
I prefer having different weapons, wielding one big one, and a smaller one for the occasional close combat utility.
For cinematic games, two identical weapons isn' really that much different from just buying one skill extra attack and using one weapon. Then you can still use a blasted shield. :)
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Tags |
off-hand weapon training, perk, rules, technique |
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