Racial Templates, Educational and Cultural Templates, and Mental Traits

[Captain Joy]

Originally Posted by nerdvana

But shouldn't that only count if the advantage is truly racial rather than cultural?

If it's ubiquitous enough to be part of a template, then I charge them against their disadvantage limit to remove it. If a species contains enough members who deviate from the cultural norm, then I would separate the physical and cultural aspects into two separate templates (as a Peter Knutsen suggested).

My intention is to maintain a thematic consistency, while allowing for some variation. Taking away a few disadvantage points from players who want to go against the grain allows them to customize to their satisfaction, but not completely ignore the setting's gestalt.

[Crakkerjakk]

In my games racial templates only include thing which shift the baseline of that race from human. Unless there are racial monocultures (which are rare) a culture is usually just a group of "suggested traits" for thing that commonly occur in that culture. Maybe a lens if a trait is truly ubiquitous in that culture.

In my Shadowrun games, for example, Trolls are the only ones with an actual IQ penalty. However people who grew up in The Barrens typically have a host of social and mental disadvantages, offset slightly by a couple levels of Streetwise and Heraldry(Gang Signs). And both Orcs and Trolls are much more likely to have grown up in the Barrens.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by nerdvana

But shouldn't that only count if the advantage is truly racial rather than cultural?

I would say any cultural trait so ubiquitous that it deserves to be part of a template does in fact have some kind of genetic basis. Which is to say, that while a certain variety of elf may have a nigh-universal SOD to nature as a cultural part of their template, if someone brought me an example of such an elf that had been raised by humans in a city for their PC, one that didn't have the SOD, I would as a GM describe them as having a weird giddy feeling when they visited a wild and un "polluted" place.

[Figleaf23]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

...
Now I'm wondering about the 'proper' way to use such templates and including mental traits on them - in such a way as to avoid any non-obvious plot holes associated with them.

What nature might such plot holes have?

Advanced discoveries in Teaching, Propaganda, Sociology, Memetics and possibly even Brainwashing generally make the ubiquitous existence of such templates fit into a setting better.

I don't see the need, actually. It seems to me that educational templates are perfectly legitimate even in societies without any advanced discoveries in those areas. Consider a template of a medieval monk, for example.

Otherwise, these templates need to be some sort of emergent memes that are highly virulent among certain populations, and totally not virulent among others;they also should be resistant to change, or should undergo a limited number of memetic mutations and then become more-or-less constant.

Also here, I don't see why you consider these features essential or assumed.

If these templates are relatively easy to custom-tailor through Sociology or similar skills, then it makes brainwashing dictatorships with zero resistance from population too easy to engineer.

'Too easy' by what measures?

It is probably more playable when these templates are emergent and resistant to editing.

Why?

... if even emergent templates are highly virulent and they involve some sort of SoD or CoH towards the society they are common in, then it becomes very easy for societies based on them to recruit enemy spies sent into their ranks to their side ... even if they are not virulent ... BUT it is possible to find out a person's template through use of Empathy and/or Psychology, it will still have an anti-spy effect, albeit a reduced one.

That makes sense.

[Figleaf23]

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

... Secondly, it would generally be preferable to have all species templates split up into a biological template and a cultural template, to make it easier to simulate such things as a Human raised by Elf, or an Orc raised by non-Orcs. The current species templates consistently fail at making it clear what is biology and what is culture.

I certainly always do this when I build a society or race in a setting.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Figleaf23

What nature might such plot holes have?

I don't know, that's what I'm asking. Perhaps some plots would look implausible in such a setting.

Originally Posted by Figleaf23

Also here, I don't see why you consider these features essential or assumed.

Otherwise they (in all their multitude) may destabilize a campaign.

Originally Posted by Figleaf23

'Too easy' by what measures?

Comparable to Psychic Mind Control states, I think.

Originally Posted by Figleaf23

Why?

Out of fear of the campaign running out of control.