[RPM] question about conditional spels

[Qhaysh]

How gamebreaking would it be to allow multiple copies of a ritual to be hung? I see no in-game justification for that rule, so it must be a balance issue. So I was wonderi Nguyen how much chaos removing this limitation would be...

[Nereidalbel]

It'll either have no effect, or be abused so horribly you'll wish you never had this thought. It all depends on your players, really.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Qhaysh

How gamebreaking would it be to allow multiple copies of a ritual to be hung? I see no in-game justification for that rule, so it must be a balance issue. So I was wonderi Nguyen how much chaos removing this limitation would be...

The issue here is that you're going to be able to cast multiple damaging spells "instantly." "Whenever I point my finger like a gun and say "Bang Bang!" I want the fireball to go off." is a valid trigger and is effectively a free action. So...gamebreaking. That said, allowing a perk per additional multiple conditional would be valid - but you'd need to specify. Additional Conditional (Greater Create Energy) would be a valid specialty. So, Fireball or Create Fire or even Conjure Kinetic Energy would be possible.

[Pragmatic]

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

That said, allowing a perk per additional multiple conditional would be valid - but you'd need to specify. Additional Conditional (Greater Create Energy) would be a valid specialty. So, Fireball or Create Fire or even Conjure Kinetic Energy would be possible.

Sounds like an idea to toss into one of your articles. :-)

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Pragmatic

Sounds like an idea to toss into one of your articles. :-)

Already done. I'm just being a bit nice (and it's not something you guys couldn't figure out on your own). ^_^

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

The issue here is that you're going to be able to cast multiple damaging spells "instantly." "Whenever I point my finger like a gun and say "Bang Bang!" I want the fireball to go off." is a valid trigger and is effectively a free action.

RPM 26 explicitly states that such a spell requires a Ready maneuver or can be done as part of an active defense (this latter I would only allow for genuinely defensive spells - using Fighting Irons for "free" when parrying is fine, blasting your attacker with Destruction not so much).
With that in mind, I don't think allowing multiple conditionals of the same type would be too terribly game breaking, although it does remove one of the primary uses for Charms.

[Langy]

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

The issue here is that you're going to be able to cast multiple damaging spells "instantly." "Whenever I point my finger like a gun and say "Bang Bang!" I want the fireball to go off." is a valid trigger and is effectively a free action. So...gamebreaking. That said, allowing a perk per additional multiple conditional would be valid - but you'd need to specify. Additional Conditional (Greater Create Energy) would be a valid specialty. So, Fireball or Create Fire or even Conjure Kinetic Energy would be possible.

As Varyon points out, it still requires a Ready maneuver (not a free action).

Still, the 'true' problem with this is that you can refresh those conditional spells much too fast, effectively allowing you to make personal charms as fast as you can cast spells.

[Pragmatic]

Originally Posted by Langy

Still, the 'true' problem with this is that you can refresh those conditional spells much too fast, effectively allowing you to make personal charms as fast as you can cast spells.

This is something I've wondered about.

When you're preparing for an adventure, you're preparing your charms and conditionals in your workshop (i.e., prepared space). This gets you the maximum bonus, so you can prepare the strongest spells possible.

Then you cast your charms and conditionals. And you're out in the wilderness, or in the middle of a dungeon, or in a hotel room, or wherever. And you have to make do with a portable "workshop," meaning the bonuses aren't as high, and thus the prepared charms and conditionals are weaker.

Right? I mean, how much can you prepare, out of field expedients and limited time?

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Varyon

RPM 26 explicitly states that such a spell requires a Ready maneuver or can be done as part of an active defense (this latter I would only allow for genuinely defensive spells - using Fighting Irons for "free" when parrying is fine, blasting your attacker with Destruction not so much).
With that in mind, I don't think allowing multiple conditionals of the same type would be too terribly game breaking, although it does remove one of the primary uses for Charms.

Bad example. So - my mistake. It still becomes problematic when the trigger is "anyone attacking me," especially if you're willing to spend a little extra energy on a Greater Sense effect so you can do things like "anyone attacking me that I consider a threat." My problem with having it be something you don't have to activate still stands. Conditional spells also get into the core of Stacking Spells and why eliminating them is a Bad Idea™. Just don't - or if you are, charge a perk and put a limit on said perk.

Originally Posted by Pragmatic

This is something I've wondered about.

When you're preparing for an adventure, you're preparing your charms and conditionals in your workshop (i.e., prepared space). This gets you the maximum bonus, so you can prepare the strongest spells possible.

Then you cast your charms and conditionals. And you're out in the wilderness, or in the middle of a dungeon, or in a hotel room, or wherever. And you have to make do with a portable "workshop," meaning the bonuses aren't as high, and thus the prepared charms and conditionals are weaker.

Right? I mean, how much can you prepare, out of field expedients and limited time?

You'd just have a more limited amount of energy to work with and your skill level would be lower. But yeah, pretty much.

[Pragmatic]

I'll have to dig around in the RPM book tonight, before the wife gets home. :-)

One thing I found an interesting idea, towards the end of D&D 3E, was "reserve spells." If you don't cast your highest-level spells (say, you've "prepared" a lightning-based spell), you were able to repeatedly cast a much-lower-powered (for instance, lightning-based) spell.

I'd kind of like to eventually get that figured out, in converting the gist of the idea to RPM... Probably something like a limit on Ritual Adept (so, for instance, "cast a lightning-based ritual in tens of seconds, instead of tens of minutes, but only while a powerful lightning-based ritual remains among your conditionals").