[RPM] Conditional Rituals (Too Powerful?)

[Nosforontu]

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

It wouldn't go away when she died. It would last for the Duration. There is no real "maintance" in RPM. Once you cast the spell it lasts until the duration expires, someone dispels it, or you cancel it.

Yes unless the spell was built with the conditional termination modifiers on RPM page 18 which sounds likely based on how he wants the spell to be terminated.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Kalzazz

Two things I've found tend to handle that problem

1. Throwing out 12 buffs on 4 PCs plus buffs on their gear = Tons and tons of spell rolls, that is LOTS of chances for horrible horrible botches, it is madly madly risky. Or someone is spending tons of points on botch mitigating advantages like Luck and Destiny

2. 'I buff all my friends' is good friendly party oriented play, who doesn't like buffs? Everyone can have fun with buffs

This. This sooooo much.

Originally Posted by Nosforontu

No, what I believe Ghost Dancer was reffering to was the fact that no matter how many different buffs a party is under they are typically cast as distinct spells. So if you were going to dispell all the spells on a target then all you need to do is match the energy of the most expensive spell on the target rather than adding up the energy costs of all the spells together that the target has on him for the dispell cost.

Now "buffing" spells that give the target a trait that you don't mind them having or even want them to have is another legitimate way of killing the spell buffs that they have on themselves as long as the energy cost of the Buff is greater than the cost of the spell they are already affected by.

Ya.

Originally Posted by Nosforontu

Yes unless the spell was built with the conditional termination modifiers on RPM page 18 which sounds likely based on how he wants the spell to be terminated.

That matters for Duration sure, making it subject to dispel or self-termination only. It's also more expensive.

[templar]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

I find it strange that you seem worried about conditional rituals foremost. I'm more concerned with not finding a limit on the number of active spells. E.g. 12 different (non-stacking) buffs for the 4 PCs, and more on their equipment.

I find what jumps out at me as I have not used the system in play yet.

I have been pondering what to do and I think I have come up with a solution to my Conditional Ritual concerns that I'd like to bounce off you guys. Some of you may think this is unnecessary, but I am just trying to find something that fits my groups play style.

Limiting Conditional Rituals
A character can have a number of Conditional Rituals "slots" equal to his Thaumatology + His Magery (as the default system), however each CR that exceeds its safe Threshold costs +1 slot, +2 slots for exceeding twice his safe threshold, +3 slots for more than three times the safe threshold, etc.

Example: Jonas the Seeker is a mage with a Thaumatology of 15 and a Magery of 2; possessing 17 slots for Conditional Rituals. His Safe Threshold is 29. He currently has 4 Rituals prepared: Fireball (31), Fighting Irons (11), Death Touch (63) and Haste 32. This costs Jonas 8 of his 17 slots (1 for Fighting Irons, 2 each for Fireball and Haste, and 3 for Death Touch).

This still allows Sorcerer to keep large number of Conditional Rituals prepared, but powerful rituals may require additional slots, depending on the mage's Thaumatology and Magery scores.

Thoughts?

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by templar

I find what jumps out at me as I have not used the system in play yet.

I have been pondering what to do and I think I have come up with a solution to my Conditional Ritual concerns that I'd like to bounce off you guys. Some of you may think this is unnecessary, but I am just trying to find something that fits my groups play style.

Limiting Conditional Rituals
A character can have a number of Conditional Rituals "slots" equal to his Thaumatology + His Magery (as the default system), however each CR that exceeds its safe Threshold costs +1 slot, +2 slots for exceeding twice his safe threshold, +3 slots for more than three times the safe threshold, etc.

Example: Jonas the Seeker is a mage with a Thaumatology of 15 and a Magery of 2; possessing 17 slots for Conditional Rituals. His Safe Threshold is 29. He currently has 4 Rituals prepared: Fireball (31), Fighting Irons (11), Death Touch (63) and Haste 32. This costs Jonas 8 of his 17 slots (1 for Fighting Irons, 2 each for Fireball and Haste, and 3 for Death Touch).

This still allows Sorcerer to keep large number of Conditional Rituals prepared, but powerful rituals may require additional slots, depending on the mage's Thaumatology and Magery scores.

Thoughts?

This actually isn't a bad way to go about it. I rather like it actually. I wouldn't use it for most of my games, not because I dislike it, but because I've never had issues with conditional spells (and that's nearly 3 years of using RPM).

[Kalzazz]

I might be tempted to use that but first to multiply the slots by some amount

Thus 1 - giving the caster an assortment of 'level X' type spells while at the same time 2 - giving roughly similar total spells


edit - though I don't think I'd use it as I think it would perhaps be overly messy, not sure. I haven't had any problems in play, but I like the idea of spell power based differentiation

[Varyon]

Yeah, your solution looks pretty good, templar. You may want to consider allowing characters to use up fractional slots with low-power spells (say, half a slot for up to half threshold), but I think it works as-is.

[Tinman]

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

You only need to add enough energy to a dispel equal to the highest spell you can affect. So if all spells are 30 energy or less, you only need to add 30 extra energy.

Unless ofcourse the party has magic wards. Then the chance of an area dispell succeding is vastly reduced. If any of the wards hold then the enemy won't have another 'Heavy Dispell' thanks to the spell stacking rules.

[Nosforontu]

Originally Posted by Tinman

Unless ofcourse the party has magic wards. Then the chance of an area dispell succeding is vastly reduced. If any of the wards hold then the enemy won't have another 'Heavy Dispell' thanks to the spell stacking rules.

Thats just a contested roll though to break through the ward though, and the first spell that he slips through the ward bypasseses the ward for himself then on and reduces it by -1 for every additional spell caster the party is facing.

It definately helps by adding yet another layer of protection for the party but adds in yet another opporutity for the parties wizard to roll quirks as well for the party.

[Tinman]

Originally Posted by templar

The system seems easy enough, and I like the fact that a mage can store spells to activate instantly, but I question the implementation. The system doesn't take into effect the combined energy of the spells being stored, which could lead to abuse if a mage wants to store 18-25 extremely powerful effects (say 19 Destructions-which would exceed the Safe Threshold by double with a Thaumatology of 19).

I'd like to include Conditional Rituals in my game, but I'd like to figure out a way tone limit the total energy that can be devoted towards a mage's Conditional spells. I'd also like to ask anyone who has used the system to let me know what their experiences were with the system.

The big limitation of exceeding the safe threshold is not querks. It's that you have a good chance of blowing yourself up! Especialy if your exceding double the safe threshold.

Sure the PC will get away with it for a short time. Then the char will die spectacularly & next time the player will stick closer to the safe threshold.

[Terwin]

Assuming a minimum area dispel effect of (dispel amount+7):
Lesser destroy Energy(5) + area(2 is min, 2=5 yard radius) + meta-magic cost(max cost of spell to be removed)

A dispel effect should only be expected to be useful against someone of lower skill/power.
(If the target can gather as much energy as the dispelling caster, they would just beef up their effects that much with extra duration or bonuses. So clearly the dispel caster against an equal must take a risk that is considered unreasonable by the target to expect to have any effect as they will need to gather at least 7 more energy than is available by taking reasonable risks. This also means that trying to create a dispel to use on a target that is stronger than you are is very hazardous indeed)