08-25-2014, 09:41 PM | #21 | |||||
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
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Re: [Loadout] Delta Operator on an intelligence op
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This could be anything from a .22 pocket pistol to a short-barreled carbine in a specially designed scooter-mounted covert case. Most likely, striking a balance between utility and stealth, it will be a modern CCW handgun in at least a somewhat effective caliber carried on him and possibly something that packs maximum firepower in minimally bulky package that he carries on his scooter, in case everything turns to excrement and he really does need to shoot his way out of an ambush. That might be, for example, a Kahr P380 carried in a IWB holster beneath normal clothing and an MP7 kept in a special pocket sewed in the satchel he has on the back of his scooter. Quote:
There will be no shortage of Iraqi gear that a simple official request relayed through the Ministry of the Interior can make available. I (and the player who asked about this) am concerned about high-tech gear available to Delta exclusively (or at least inconveniently expensive for private contractors to buy) that the PC might 'borrow' from the gear he carried on his Delta intelligence ops and bring with him to use on the actual adventure. Not a factor in either the Delta operations that the PC was doing when pulled out to play local expert / security element / field electronic device technician for an irregular team of specialists from various agencies or in the actual adventure resulting from that.
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08-25-2014, 11:43 PM | #22 | |||||
Join Date: Mar 2010
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Re: [Loadout] Delta Operator on an intelligence op
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So let's say they identify your Delta and start shooting at him, but he gets away. Afterwards, what do they do? If they think that US/Iraqi intel knows what they are doing, they are likely to change their plans, rendering the intelligence useless. Conversely, if they think that the individual is a Baathist or part of a criminal organization, they may decide that their operations can still go forward as planned (since the targets are still in the dark and the investment has been made). The core concept of black ops is that no matter what the targets never have any proof who did it, and ideally suspect someone else entirely. There are real advantages to this, and it happens to be one of those things that is a Delta specialty. Concealing your allegiance is, to these guys, a basic part of operational security. Quote:
Like this: You're planning an attack on Coalition forces, you begin to think that the guy across the street is a spy. You and your goons go over to question him, he pulls out a small AK and opens up on you. You return fire, but he escapes. You know that he looked Arabic, dressed Arabic, and his weapons were the kind of thing that you could find anywhere in the country. Was your mission compromised, or was that unrelated? Conversely, if he pulls out some weird gun you've never seen before, or (worse) something that you have only seen in the hands of Coalition forces, do you still hold out ANY chance that it was unrelated? How do you not change your plans? Quote:
In this kind of operation, they would likely not carry ANYTHING that the enemy would not also have access to. Just too distinctive. They would save the top-of-the-line stuff for wet ops, not SR. Quote:
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08-26-2014, 10:00 AM | #23 | |||||||
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
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Re: [Loadout] Delta Operator on an intelligence op
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They are legitimate Federal Police and Iraqi Counter-Terrorist Command operations that enjoy intelligence and technical support from United States Forces - Iraq. Any successes are loudly proclaimed by the Iraqi government. The fact that US forces are still providing technical and intelligence support to Iraqi security forces in 2011 is not a secret in any effective sense. Quote:
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In the operations being discussed, Delta is providing intelligence support, advice and technical expertise to operations primarily run by the Iraqi Ministry of the Interior and the Iraqi Ministry of Defense. Quote:
Winning goodwill with the local bigwigs by providing them with technical support for their operations is one of the goals of these operations. Another is to keep US forces informed about the operations of Iraqi counter-terror teams. Quote:
Granted, the credit for these operations is meant to go to the locals who provide 99% of the manpower and firepower, but it's not as if the fact that US advisors and instructors go out on counter-terrorist operations with Iraqi forces is a secret in 2011. When the character was detailed for this duty, it was still a full six months until United States Forces - Iraq was scheduled to leave the country.
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08-26-2014, 11:12 AM | #24 | |||
Join Date: Mar 2010
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Re: [Loadout] Delta Operator on an intelligence op
Because Delta is like a Stealth Bomber - great under very specific circumstances, but way too expensive to risk for something routine. If a Delta operator is being used it should be because they do not think someone else can do the job.
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represents only a small fraction of their resources, and specifically excludes their higher levels of leadership. If that is not the case, then you have Delta investigating petty crime, which is neither sensible nor challenging. If it is the case, then any actions have to take into account what those offsite higher-ups will learn and do as a result. Large criminal and terrorist organizations have small dust-ups with police and military forces on a regular basis, for a variety of reasons. If they cancelled major operations just because of a small firefight in a city known for small firefights then they would never get anything done. Instead, they are going to analyze the incident and try and figure out whether or not it was "one of those things" or if it indicated the compromise of something important. Commandos of any type give that away, so you need to keep them from finding that out - you can either disguise everyone as ordinary Iraqi police/military or you can control the site so thoroughly that they simply never get the details (good luck with that!). Think about this as if it were drug dealers. If a low or mid-level dealer gets killed or arrested, they don't shut down the cross-border pipelines or scatter the distribution networks - these things happen. But if they find out that the dealer was targeted by the DEA or that he was taken down in a massive SWAT operation that suggested prior surveillance, then you start taking steps to minimize the damage and preserve the organization and infrastructure. You can replace low-level people (indeed, you frequently have to), but the organization is a little more precious. Quote:
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When they do that, the fact that Delta is involved is classified, and they try to blend in with the rest of the group. They identify as American, they keep the rest under wraps. |
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08-26-2014, 02:23 PM | #25 | ||||||
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
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Re: [Loadout] Delta Operator on an intelligence op
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It isn't as if there were ever 3,500 high-value terrorist masterminds in the area. Most of them were, indeed, the local equivalent of 'petty crime'. These operations are not meant to be supremely important or exciting. They are the day-to-day grind that the character was called away from in order to start the adventure. Quote:
The US presence there in 2011 was a way to show support for local elite commando units and oversee the last phases of a transition which sees all responsibility for planning and mounting such operations passed over to them. Quote:
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Fort Bragg internal newsletters mention Delta frequently. News reports mention their participation in ongoing operations. There are actual secrets about a lot of what they do, but it's not as they are a black hole of secrecy which no one is allowed to penetrate. There are actual political and security benefits from publicly showing a high level of support for Iraqi-led operations during the last few months of US troop presence in Iraq and the Iraqi security forces leadership is much more impressed by getting support from 1st SFOD-D than from an Army enlisted man with a 25* MOS. That's entirely beside the point that the Signals guy can do the job well enough.
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09-01-2014, 06:21 AM | #26 |
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
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Iraqi Security Forces ammunition
A lot of operators are more comfortable with a weapon that can use the most abundant local ammunition. PCs being PCs, the forensic issues involved in an unlawful shooting can also serve as incentives to carry at least one firearm loaded with the same rounds as the local police.
I know most Iraqi police are issued a Glock 19, but I don't know about ammo. Do they buy 112, 115 or 124 grain 9x19mm NATO FMJ and if so, from which manufacturers? Or do they use JHP ammo, like almost all US civilian police agencies, the Department of Homeland Security and even some specialist military police agencies/units carrying out law enforcement tasks? If so, which brands are they buying? Edit: Found some evidence that at least some Iraqi security forces got Serbian PPU 9x19mm NATO 115 grain FMJ. No idea if that's widespread or not, but I can at least find several references to PPU head-stamped ammo in post-2003 Iraq. That PPU ammo may have been subcontracted through Taos Industries, Inc., who appear to have supplied much of the Iraqi army. They very likely bought 9mm NATO 115 grain Ball/FMJ from multiple suppliers, most of which appear to be based outside the US. Sellier & Bellot, in CZ, sold 9mm NATO 115 grain Ball/FMJ to the Iraqi Army in their own name and may also have been a subcontractor for Taos. Jordani company Golden Wings Inc. supplied 9mm NATO 115 grain Ball/FMJ ammunition, but it appears unlikely that they manufacture it themselves. Interestingly, Keistler Police Supply, which provided the majority of Glock 19s for Iraqi security services, only specifies details about 'ammunition, 9mm' in one place. That is then listed as 9mm 124 grain THP. Judging by what Keistler stocks, that seems only to fit one brand. That's Federal 9mm 124 THP (LE9T1), which is a JHP round in GURPS terms. However, it is left unclear whether all the millions of rounds that they supplied to IPS and IFP over a more than 2 year period were LE9T1 rounds, or if those were only a limited order of premium ammunition for special police teams. A question remains, for those who have studied the subject, or have direct experience, how easy is it to get ammunition other than NATO standard 'ball' or FMJ in Iraq? Both for contractors and for Iraqis?
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09-02-2014, 07:09 PM | #27 |
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
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Acquiring weapons and ammunition in Iraq
No one has any idea about whether the Iraqi security forces carry exclusively Ball/FMJ ammo or whether those of them who have law enforcement duties are issued JHP ammo like many civilian police forces?
What about a more general question? Apart from the arms bazaars that I know exist within Iraqi Kurdistan, where do people who own personal weapons in Iraq get them? How do they get ammo? Are there gun bazaars? Gun stores? Or is this all a matter of gray or black market trading?
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09-03-2014, 01:33 AM | #28 |
Night Watchman
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Cambridge, UK
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Re: Acquiring weapons and ammunition in Iraq
I suspect they're a great deal less open about this than US police forces.
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09-03-2014, 07:47 AM | #29 | |
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
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Re: Acquiring weapons and ammunition in Iraq
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Individual policemen are also unlikely to be all that cagy when discussing their issue weapon and ammunition with Coalition or US forces. I was also hoping that any US ammunition companies that got a contract or subcontract to supply ammunition to the security forces might have bragged about the fact online. While partially true (see above), none of them saw fit to mention specific brands.
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09-03-2014, 11:15 AM | #30 |
Join Date: Feb 2009
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Re: [Loadout] Delta Operator on an intelligence op
The Honda Helix is an extremely popular scooter the world over, and its rear trunk could quite possibly hold a folding stock rifle.
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Tags |
equipment, high-tech, loadouts, modern firepower, special ops |
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