01-23-2021, 10:11 AM | #61 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Shoreline, WA (north of Seattle)
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Re: Updating the vampire
This sounds like one of those situations that would fit a Power attribute (ala The Fifth Attribute or Call of Cthulhu) pretty well, if you wanted to do some more tinkering.
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01-23-2021, 10:55 AM | #62 | |
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Sumter, SC
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Re: Updating the vampire
Quote:
What is a Vampire The very term "vampire" comes from a specific Slavic states vampire, the Vampir which has a variant known as the Penanggalen. This happy little piece of nightmare fuel was a flying head with all its guts underneath. Better yet it is not always undead. Throw in the similarly spelled and pronounced exactly the same way Vampiir which killed not by drinking blood but by laying on top of is victim and stealing the very breath of its victims eventually causing death by suffocation and had no physical body and you see the problem. As Theresa Bane points out in her book Encyclopedia of Vampire Mythology "Most interesting, there is not a pre-existing or commonly accepted idea, let alone a singular, all-encompassing definition that clearly says what a vampire is, specifically." Here are the counter examples she gives: *Not all vampires are undead: Bruja of Spain. *Not all vampires are Evil: Talamaur of Australian lore; they are also not undead *Not all vampires survive on blood: Algul of Arabic lore and Japan's Gaki. *Not all vampires are nocturnal: many "species" of vampire in the Greek isles which are deadliest at high noon. *Only one "species" of vampire doesn't cast a reflection: The Zemu from the Moldavia region of Romania *Even in fiction mot all vampires require a stake to be driven into its heart to be destroyed: In the actual novel Dracula is destroyed by Jonathan Harker beheading him as Quincey P. Morris stabbed in the heart with a bowie knife. As for becoming a vampire the list had other methods besides being bit by another vampire: Committing suicide Being murdered Being a murderer Being a witch in life, they die and come back as vampires. Being a werewolf in life Being the 7th son of a 7th son. Being a redhead
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01-23-2021, 01:46 PM | #63 |
Join Date: Mar 2016
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Re: Updating the vampire
If you define the term "vampire" so broadly there is literally not a single universal descriptor that can be applied to all of them, then you've defined it too broadly. One of the most interesting parts of GURPS Zombies was the discussion of what the word means, but that ended with clearly defining the core of what it means to be a zombie.
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01-23-2021, 03:11 PM | #64 |
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Forest Grove, Beaverton, Oregon
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Re: Updating the vampire
I'd assume to qualify at least required it to be vampiric. Whether that's draining living people for some personal gain or mere sustenance shouldn't matter too much.
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01-23-2021, 05:19 PM | #65 | ||
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Location: Sumter, SC
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Re: Updating the vampire
Quote:
Quote:
"What, then, do all these different species of vampires, from all around the world, have in common? The answer is simple: basic human fear. No matter when or where, how it hunts or what it hunts, the vampire attacks that which man considers most precious. The reason that there is no single definition of a vampire is because each culture of people, from their various time periods and from their various locations, has feared different things. The vampire has become man’s fear manifest; as man has evolved, so too has the vampire. What is culturally important to one people is not necessarily so to another."
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01-23-2021, 05:23 PM | #66 | ||
Join Date: Mar 2016
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Re: Updating the vampire
Quote:
Quote:
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01-23-2021, 06:13 PM | #67 |
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: The Hall of Fallen Columns
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Re: Updating the vampire
This point has confused me a bit in GURPS treatment.
I was personally surprised to see them grouped in with skeletons and zombies under GURPS Magic rules. The treatment of the Zombie spell suggests that the resulting animated undead depends mostly on its physical condition at time of casting, and a mummy is an incidental possible result. One of the Pyramid issues did a stat-up of the Mummy for Dungeon Fantasy (though I can't recall offhand if it was for DFRPG or just GURPS DF). As far as I can recall, there is no Mummy monster type in the boxed set DFRPG Monsters 1 or 2 manuals. In That Other Dungeon Crawl RPG system, Mummies are several orders of power higher in the undead food chain than mere zombies. |
01-23-2021, 06:51 PM | #68 | |
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Re: Updating the vampire
[QUOTE=SolemnGolem;2364037]This point has confused me a bit in GURPS treatment.
I was personally surprised to see them grouped in with skeletons and zombies under GURPS Magic rules. The treatment of the Zombie spell suggests that the resulting animated undead depends mostly on its physical condition at time of casting, and a mummy is an incidental possible result./QUOTE] As I point out in D&D Lich in GURPS there would be vain mages who would want to go for the Boris Karloff mummy so they could pass for human. Also even Zombies isn't consistent in its definition saying that a when evil spirits animate dead bodies you get an undead zombie (pg 19) But that is how some vampires operate - a sprit takes over a corpse and start draining the life energy of the living to keep the body it is animating together. Then you get things like Dr. Bright of the SCP Foundation who in reality now resides in SCP-963. Anyone wearing it has their mind destroyed and Dr. Bright inhabits the body. After 30 days a copy of his mind is now in the body and the process can be repeated. Is Dr. Bright's body a zombie? But what is Dr Bright himself? The you have the what ever they are in the I am Legend novel. More over what is the difference between a flesh golem and a mage who wants to make his golem on the cheap and grabs a fresh corpse and casts Golem on in? The line between Zombie and other things can blur real fast. Quote:
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01-23-2021, 10:03 PM | #69 | |
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: UK
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Re: Updating the vampire
I think it's a bit silly to expect all these things to match up in any kind of reliable categories and whether something is or is not "a zombie". They were mostly invented separately by people who weren't thinking about the others. It probably works better to compare things based on how they work.
For instance, there are stories of beings that are undead because they deliberately used magic so that they wouldn't stay dead. "The Mummy", for instance. Then there are ones that come back because they did a bad thing, and ones that come back in revenge because somebody else did a bad thing, and there are things where it's basically just supernatural "natural history", as with vampires that are vampires because another vampire made them into one, making them almost like a species. I don't know whether Dr. Bright can be classified as a zombie, but I'm sure he'd say he was if he thought it was cool. Personally, when I think of the word "vampire" I'd expect that to mean something that is humanoid, drinks blood, is nocturnal in some sense (whether that's "dies in sunlight", or "nocturnal like a nocturnal animal", as often seen in kids' fiction, or "special powers work only at night"), and has in some way come back from the dead. But if something had only most of those features I'd still count it. Hence why we think of those legends from other parts of the world as "vampires" even though that name belongs to a different story from Eastern Europe - they're not exactly like, and the stories presumably aren't in fact related, but they're like enough that you tend to think of them as "the same kind of animal". And if you were writing a story, or a game setting, where all these things were real, it would be believable to say that they were the same kind of animal, just local varieties. Anyway, I think maybe we've lost track slightly of what kind of vampire this thread is supposed to be about. Trying to say anything that applies to every kind of vampire, as we've just been discussing, leads to gibberish. The original poster said: Quote:
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01-23-2021, 11:54 PM | #70 |
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: UK
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Re: Updating the vampire
I'm going to list the main features of the vampires in some of those things to see what the common factors are.
Vampire: the Masquerade.
Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
Twilight. (Thanks to LokRobster. I've only read a comic-book version of the first one.)
A Discovery of Witches (books). (From memory and a Wikipedia article, and I've only read the first two. If any of this is wrong feel free to correct it.)
I haven't read/watched a lot of the others, can anyone else contribute?
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