[DF Idea] Diabolization

[Dwarf99]

Originally Posted by vierasmarius

No, you don't. If you could buy non-Ablative DR for a lower price than Ablative + Regen (whether provided by a separate advantage or an enhancement on the DR) you are paying too much. Yes, your build may be cheaper than Ablative + Regen, but it's still more expensive than un-limited DR.

Ok yeah it's clear to me that (Extreme) regenerative DR needs to be cheaper than 90 points plus the cost of DR. Throwing 8 FP at Extreme Regeneration (DR only) it brings it down to 18 (plus either 1 per level or 4 per level of DR) and leaves my cast dynamic intact. I like it.

I'm going to get around to posting some bare bones items rules when I get the chance.

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by Dwarf99

The character

1) pays x FP
2) gets DR
3) gets hit and loses some
4) doesn't get hit for a while so it sits there not regenerating... for a bit
5) when its duration is up the character doesn't maintain it so it goes away.

Then
1) GM describes something scary
2) character pays x FP and instantly gets DR back!

This is worse in all ways to regular DR of the same level, doesn't cost FP, and is on all the time, including when the character is asleep, unconscious, surprised, etc., and doesn't ablate.

I understand exactly what you want to model (Blizzard likes the mechanic and uses it in World of Warcraft as well) but it just doesn't work out well on "Modest" levels of DR.

Now yes, if you make it a modification of the limitation on DR there becomes a breakpoint where it's cheaper to go with a Regeneration based model. I think this has a trivially simple solution - at the "level" where you hit the breakpoint, switch over to the other build. Just swap out all points spent on the DR-oriented build with the DR/Regen build. Non optional, cannot mix and match, no halfsies or funny business. That's pretty consistent with the ABCs of power building from GURPS Powers, where we're looking for Accuracy of concept, Build simplicity, and finally Cost. For folks who value the Cost point over Build simplicity and are wiling to deal with the extra complexity, the breakpoint swap-over seems the fairest approach.

[Dwarf99]

In post 51 I added 8 FP cost to the regeneration just so I could keep the cast dynamic and the ability ends up worth 18+1 per level for Ablative or plus 4 per level of Semi Ablative so um...

yeah...

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by Dwarf99

In post 51 I added 8 FP cost to the regeneration just so I could keep the cast dynamic and the ability ends up worth 18+1 per level for Ablative or plus 4 per level of Semi Ablative so um...

yeah...

I didn't have post #51 when I wrote my response; I got called off before hitting reply and it hung around in my browser for a whlie. So um, yeah.

Costs FP is irrelevant to the initial problem - the actual healing of the ablative DR costs too much. Making it cost less by heaping limitations on it doesn't change the fact that the base price is too much. You're just making the ability to heal DR worse

[CousinX]

Originally Posted by Bruno

I didn't have post #51 when I wrote my response; I got called off before hitting reply and it hung around in my browser for a whlie. So um, yeah.

Costs FP is irrelevant to the initial problem - the actual healing of the ablative DR costs too much. Making it cost less by heaping limitations on it doesn't change the fact that the base price is too much. You're just making the ability to heal DR worse

How about a new limitation to DR, "Regenerating Ablative DR," which reduces the limitation value of Ablative. So Fast (1/min) Regeneration might be -60% instead of -80%; 1/sec, -40%; and 10/sec, -20%.

Or, for even more of an authentic feel, maybe it can be "refreshed" by taking a Ready maneuver and spending FP ... I'd call that Takes Extra Time, Costs FP, and maybe use the limitation cost of Semi-Ablative (-20%) instead of fully ablative, since it can be fully refreshed even in the midst of combat. So if takes 1 turn and costs 1 FP to totally refresh your Bone Shield, it'd be bought at -20% (plus another -10% for PM, if applicable).

EDIT: Another possibility might be Vitality Reserve, possibly with similar modifiers to those above.

[Dwarf99]

Originally Posted by CousinX

Or, for even more of an authentic feel, maybe it can be "refreshed" by taking a Ready maneuver and spending FP ... I'd call that Takes Extra Time, Costs FP [...etc].

I like this solution. I really want to use Semi-Ablative DR anyway because I don't want weaker monsters knocking it off. I'm thinking a really simple solution would be (even if I did decide to use fully ablative DR) to hand wave instantly regenerative DR at half the normal limitation (even though it doesn't follow the normal regeneration scheme, I'd provision that some GMs might require DR more than 10 take 1/10th DR seconds to regenerate)... when you add in Takes Extra Time, Costs FP, and PM it takes some more points off too so that works.

OBTW thanks for not noticing my evil math errors while I was thinking on one level of regeneration and typing about another (including limitations more than 80%).

[Dwarf99]

Originally Posted by Dwarf99

I'm going to get around to posting some bare bones items rules when I get the chance.

aaaand here they are:


CF System- all enchanted items were made using the application of Cost Factor. Though some items are initially worth less than 50gp it is the minimum base price for enchanted items. For example a +1 CF club is worth 100gp, not 20.

Weapons may come from any source specified in GURPS DF 8: Treasure Tables, or even GURPS Low Tech:

Cool Sounding Names- Diablo always had neat sounding items, therefore the rule from Low Tech Companion 2 Cinematic Weapon Design is in effect “+1 damage for each modifying word […] apply +1 CF per point of damage”. Fine or Very weapons or armor might also be called something different such as Sturdy, Strong, Glorious, Awesome, or Valiant.

Preexisting item modifiers have their usual effects and CF. Racial modifiers such as Dwarven or Elven (as they don’t exist). Orichalcum didn’t exist in Diablo 1 and 2 but at GM option could exist in this game. Meteoric weapons can benefit from magic in the Diablo series if they are socketed, but can’t be directly enchanted and react to magic the same way DF Meteoric weapons react to it.

Socketed Items and Gems- Gems have varied and specific bonuses granted based on the quality of the gems Chipped Gems have a base cost of 50gp and the carat formula is not used. Instead gems are Chipped, Flawed (+1 CF), Jewel (+4 CF), Flawless (+9 CF), Superior (+19 CF), Perfect (+99 CF), or Grand (+199). Gems add +1 point of damage or DR per level of quality (Chipped +1, up to Grand +6). Gems of sufficient quality may provide Injury Tolerance: Damage Reduction against their given damage type instead of DR but doing so requires a gem with a CF equal to or greater than 80% of the CP cost of the ability after reducing for Limited Defenses.

Amethyst- Not sure though it seems I remember something about Strength
Diamond- Not sure though it seems I remember something about all resistance, so +will or +DR maybe?
Emerald- Toxic damage or DR vs. Toxic or Poison Resistance
Ruby- Fire damage or DR vs. Fire
Sapphire- Cold damage or DR vs. Cold
Skull- Levels of Hard To Kill
Topaz-I think lightning

“Runes” are always worth as much as Perfect or Grand gems (based on GM whim and whether the GM wants to specify gems as lesser or greater).

The item can appear to be made of the essence of its element for +4 CF (such as living flames, congealed poison, flickering lightning, shards of ice, etc) as a special effect. Items can also have different coloration for different effects. Tawny yellow/brown colors resonate with acid (though some including those more orange resonate with lightning instead), reds resonate with fire, blues with cold, greens with poison whites with will or the moral forces of good, blacks and grays with the moral forces of evil. Coloration is a special effect, with rare dyes adding CF. Actual effects added are determined by their severity.

Rather than merely affecting damage a descriptive word might grant an attribute bonus while worn at +4 (per point) CF for secondary characteristics, +8 CF for ST or HT and +16 CF for DX or IQ (again per point).

Though an item shouldn’t allow the use of a trait specific to a given class (such as an Amazon imbuement) they can be made to grant bonuses to rolls made to use that trait by members of that class. Such items should have names which reflect their applicable class. GMs aren’t required to force characters not to use weapons they don’t have skills for but they can due to its appropriateness for Diablo. Once a gem is applied to an item add its CF to the item not its base gp cost.

For example a Mighty Jagged Scimitar of the Ages might be a Very Fine (+19 CF) Large Falchion (Low Tech 625gp) that deals +1 damage (+1 CF) and grants +1 Strength (+8 CF) for a price of 18,125 to buy or 40% of that to sell (modified for wealth as per DF 1). If the scimitar later has a Flawed gem inserted this raises price by 625 gp (+1 CF on the item) not 50 gp (+1 CF on the gem).

(Optional) “Talent Items”- In DF 1 characters are given the option of wildcard skills. In games where those are allowed, combine the wildcard lists of any class or lens allowed to the Diablo class. The resultant list is the new Amazon! or Sorceress! skill, the talent for which is always large enough for 15 points per level. Such items can grant skill bonuses for each skill the character has, but not on any they don’t. Simply take the bonus to be provided (+1 to +4 as a normal talent) and multiply by 12 to get the CF.

Potions- Healing potions are already covered in GURPS DF 1, but rather than using “paut” GURPS DF Diabolized uses Mana potions that heal the same amounts of FP (or ER) for the same price. At the GM’s option Mana potions cure FP and ER lost to magic while equivalent Stamina potions cure FP and ER lost to everything else.

Rejuvenation potions heal HP, FP, and ER for 3 times the cost (e.g. a 4d rejuvenation potion costs 3,000gp). It is up to the GM whether there is a full rejuvenation potion (or whether 4d counts since its maximum rejuvenation is 24).


Acid grenades are called Fulminating Potions, Alkahest is an amped up acid grenade.
Rancid gas induces Retching, and is worth Affliction CP x 10gp
Choking gas induces Suffocation and is worth Affliction CP x 10gp
Rune combinations should be left to the GM.

In the event of (temporary) attribute increasing herbs they have a base cost of 10gp x (Total CF of increased attributes). Herbs that temporary increase resistance have cost equal to 10gp x (CF of the required level of IT:DR). multiplied by any duration modifiers up to 100 times. Permanent advantages granted have CF equal to 4/5 of their CP.

Items that don’t have a “base cost” assume 50gp per CF. Enchantments such a Ghost Weapon that would normally be rated in gp simply divide their old gp cost by 50gp to get the converted CF. Such conversions should only be made for an effect that doesn’t otherwise specify a CF modifier (such as because it hasn’t been discussed here or at your gaming table).

Scrolls- add DR 2, 1 HP (-20%) and Can Be Stolen (-20%) and 1 Use: Fast Reload (-20%) to the ability the scroll is intended for, determine its adjusted CP cost and multiply that by 10gp. These numbers assume TL 3 with a baseline income of 700gp, a 22 day work month and the ability to enchant an item with 1 CP per level of talent applicable (typically 3 levels with or without specialization). Such scribes can enchant 66 CP per month which makes slightly more than 10gp/CP. Larger items are more durable and difficult to steal for a smaller limitation.

If the GM allows PC classes to do it, this requires UB (Scribe) [10] or UB (Enchanter) [20] available to any class that can do magic stuff (even the Barbarian with Grim Ward). This sort of provision isn't canonical for Diablo.

Identify- 70gp
Town Portal- 300gp

Tomes- Tomes in Diablo 1 and two were handled differently. In Diablo 1 anyone could learn any spell. It was assumed that the sorcerer was just better at it. As a result GMs can allow characters of any class to learn any spell, but only at the most basic level (suggested minimum dice for damage spells, etc) and those who aren’t eligible for talent can never earn it or improve any spell beyond the base level. Spell casters can improve talent and spells naturally, but if they have a focused talent (like fire or necromancy) they can’t use that talent for incompatible spells. In Diablo 2 they held several scrolls and could be bought as a thesis (DF 4) with a CP value equal to the ability times the number of scrolls. For example a Tome of Town Portal (50 CP/scroll) with 6 copies of that scroll costs 1250g; each tome can hold 20 scrolls.

Wands- The GM may allow charged wands and staves to follow the +CF system, be worth (charges) times the price of scrolls, or a combination of both, requiring materials cost equal to CP x 10gp x charges. For example an item with a CF of +4 and a base price of 100gp is suitable for a 500gp charged item.

The Horadric Cube- GMs should decide for themselves whether to allow this one into their games as it is potentially unbalancing. In games using Power Items it is a 40 point power item which can never be bought as signature gear. It can make any enchanted item instantly and may be the only way to make some items. The only balancing factor of the cube is that it consumes gear and the GM has the ultimate say in whether canonical recipes are even valid.

Cool Sounding Crap- Diablo also had crap weapons or armor, not exactly cursed in the GURPS Hexed sense of the word but they gave a penalty to armor or damage. Any weapon or armor taking a descriptive penalty automatically counts as cheap (-.6 CF). Rusted Dull, Crude, or Weak weapons grant -1 to damage. Dented armor grants -1 to DR and -1 to DX while worn. Bent weapons grant -1 to skill and -1 to damage for -.8 CF instead of -.6. Broken equipment has -.9 CF but can’t be sold until repaired (which if its normal CF is high enough could be quite costly…). Negative modifiers can multiply after positive CF. so for example if something is Bent that normally costs 10,000gp rather than adding up all the CFs just multiply by 20% to get 2000gp. If that broken relic worth 100 grand is recognized someone might want to buy it at 10 grand but you’ll most likely need it for something.

Monster Parts- Named monsters may (6 or less) drop body parts which may have one or more effects. So far I'm up for suggestions on lootable body parts and their effects...

[Dwarf99]

Appendix 2: "Abyssal Bovines" (note Any Changes to Canon are influenced by that other game we don't talk about)
We all know the Secret Cow Level is the literal most famous and popular easter egg in gaming history, computer or otherwise. In a Diablo game it is to be expected (unless you’re playing in D1…). In any case there are 42 spawns of 4d6 Abyssal Cow Minions. Most spawns are either Greater Minions that drop after 54 damage or Lesser Minions that drop after 2 damage, depending on GM leniency. Seriously if you mess with him he might well make you deal with over 1,000 cows and Greater Minions might survive that Fire Wall (it takes 9d to kill them on a maximum roll). Each “Herd” has 6 spawns. GMs can roll that as 24d per spawn or 6d x 24 per herd. There are 7 herds on the farms. Watch out! You could be surrounded by as many as 36 cows with their reach 2 polearms (reach is actually 3 for them). Grief Ripper and King Cow are the 43rd spawn in the level.

ST:27	HP: 30		Speed: 5
DX:8	Will:12		Move: 4 (Enhanced Move 1 gives 8 ground move)
IQ:5	Per:10		SM: +2 (2500 lbs)
HT:12	FP: 12
Dodge 8	Parry:		DR: 10

Horns(15): 3d+4 impaling
Hooves (15): 3d+4 crushing
Trample (15): 3d+1 plus 1d+1 if the target is knocked down and the cow overruns.
"Abyssal" Pike (15): 6d+2 cut, 3d+2 impaling(both swung) or 3d+4 impaling (Thrust)
Cleaving Strike (Polearm, 15): Can strike up to 3 adjacent foes as an all out attack just like the ability on DF 11 p. 10.
Traits: Berserk; Enhanced Move 1 (GroundSpeed 8); Impaling Striker (Horns); Hooves (Only on feet, no discount); Unfazeable;
Skills: Brawling-15; Polearm-15;
Class: Demon
Notes: The pikes are the equivalent of Fine Dueling Halberds (Worth 1,200gp). They drop on 6 or less. The Cows are prone to attacking in groups rather than streaming and may present not much more than a good opportunity for a giant barbecue for anyone with area effect abilities. Though it isn’t canonical the GM may permit Abyssal Cow Steaks to be equivalent of Major Healing Potions in all regards including price. This may drop on a spawn in lieu of other gear on 6 or less.

Grief Ripper the Wrath has 35 ST and HP and deals an extra die of damage with all attacks. He can teleport into any herd in the Secret Cow Level and drops an item called Bladebuckle, a very large silver belt buckle (base price 230gp according to DF 8) with the following effects (CF based on Character Point value, my system doesn't use standard enchanting. Items may be significantly undervalued in GURPS terms but the values can be close in Diablo terms):

1d cutting aura against attackers (CF+2)
+5 DR (CF +4)
+2 DX (CF +32)
+2 ST (CF +16)
At +54 CF the item is worth 12,650gp

King Cow has 40 ST and HP and deals 2 extra dice of damage with all attacks (2d+2 with Ghoul Mangler) and is equipped with Ghoul Mangler, a Hell Pike worth 4,320gp with the following effects:

+2 damage by way of being named Ghoul Mangler (+2 CF)
Affects Insubstantial (+12 CF, based on the Blessing from GURPS Powers: Divine Favor)
Enhanced Parry 3 (+12 CF)

King Cow can throw 6d Lightning bolts like they’re candy at a parade and can attack foes with a “Mana Burn” that deals FP or ER damage (Whichever is applicable, ER first, then FP).

Leaving King Cow alive allows multiple forays into the Secret Cow Level but the cows don’t respawn until the next session.

King Cow and Grief Ripper are -1 Reputation.

[Dwarf99]

These were specifically requested. If it looks familiar it's the 200 point build from GURPS Powers: Divine Favor.
Clay Golem

ST 17		HP: 17		Speed: 6.0
DX 12		Will: 10	Move: 6
IQ 9		Per: 10
HT 13		FP: N/A		SM: +0 (300 lbs)

Dodge 10 Parry: 10 DR: 4
Clay Golem Fist (14): 1d+3
Traits: Combat Reflexes; DR 4. Doesn’t Breathe; Doesn’t Eat or Drink; Doesn’t Sleep; Fanaticism (Religion); Hidebound; High Pain Threshold; Higher Purpose (Serve its master); Immunity to Metabolic Hazards; Immunity to Mind Control; Indomitable; Injury Tolerance (Homogenous; No Blood); Low Empathy; Mute; No Sense of Humor; Pressure Support 3; Reprogrammable; Sealed; Single-Minded; Social Stigma (Valuable Property); Striker (Limb: Arm; Crushing)Unaging; Unfazeable; Vacuum Support; and Wealth (Dead Broke). Golems neither have nor spend Fatigue Points.
Skills: Brawling-14; Lifting-12
Class: Construct
Notes: Necromancer Clay golems have an extra 49 points to increase abilities, Iron golems add DR +9; Fire Golems add DR 7 (Fire Only -40%; Absorption, Healing Only +80%) [49]. Blood Golems will be forthcoming

[Dwarf99]

Sorry to bump a dead thread, but it is worthy of an update to note that the WIP file is up on my Google Drive folder in my Sig.