06-20-2013, 09:22 AM | #1 | |
Join Date: Jan 2006
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DF Artillery Mages Noodling
In a different forum, the issue of DF artillery mages came up again, and I was induced to actually type out some musings I've had wrt Artillery Mages. Basically, I have been tempted from time to time to work up a missile spell equivalent to Heroic Archer or Weapon Master that makes missile spell specialization pew pew or boom boom wizards into a viable niche.
Something along the lines of: Quote:
Since I'm not running DF right now, it remains a temptation. Thoughts? |
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06-20-2013, 10:23 AM | #2 |
GURPS Line Editor
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Montréal, Québec
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Re: DF Artillery Mages Noodling
Hmm . . . Quick, accurate fire is almost the opposite of the classic artillery mage. In old-timey dungeon fantasy, such a mage's job was to sling long-casting-time area-effect spells that blasted everything indiscriminately. For instance, the old AD&D Fireball ("Fire Ball," if you look back far enough!) took three segments to cast to Magic Missile's one segment, and lobbed one explosive missile, not a machine-gun-like spray of projectiles. It was slow enough that interruption was a concern, so the mage needed the now-traditional screen of fighters to protect him while casting. Thanks to the way early tactical combat worked, the projectile could be lobbed over intervening friendlies who were doing this job.
In light of that, I might go for effects more like these: The cost may need adjustment . . . playtesting would be good for something like this. Maybe that should be +2% per level, or even +5%.
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Sean "Dr. Kromm" Punch <kromm@sjgames.com> GURPS Line Editor, Steve Jackson Games My DreamWidth [Just GURPS News] |
06-20-2013, 10:56 AM | #3 |
Fightin' Round the World
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: New Jersey
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Re: DF Artillery Mages Noodling
+1% is too expensive - I wouldn't want to pay 50 points to have Explosive Fireball instead of just buying the spell. +5% is probably better - 10 points seems fair, if you have to choose which enhancement you're good at.
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Peter V. Dell'Orto aka Toadkiller_Dog or TKD My Author Page My S&C Blog My Dungeon Fantasy Game Blog "You fall onto five death checks." - Andy Dokachev |
06-20-2013, 11:00 AM | #4 |
GURPS Line Editor
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Montréal, Québec
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Re: DF Artillery Mages Noodling
To be clear: This affects all your Missile spells, and you choose the enhancements you're using each time you cast, not when you buy the ability. But yeah . . . maybe 1 point per +1% is too steep. At +5%, somebody with Heroic Archer-level points could get +100% in enhancements, which might be too good. I'm not sure.
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Sean "Dr. Kromm" Punch <kromm@sjgames.com> GURPS Line Editor, Steve Jackson Games My DreamWidth [Just GURPS News] |
06-20-2013, 11:36 AM | #5 |
Join Date: Dec 2012
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Re: DF Artillery Mages Noodling
Couldn't it be possible to get Compartmentalized Mind (with whatever -% for missile spells only) so that they could cast and lob fireballs on the same turn.
That's the route I would take. *I don't have my books on me so I can't look up point cost, but if i remember correctly it would be similar in point total to Heroic Archer + Weapon Master Bow. |
06-20-2013, 01:17 PM | #6 | |
Fightin' Round the World
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: New Jersey
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Re: DF Artillery Mages Noodling
Quote:
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Peter V. Dell'Orto aka Toadkiller_Dog or TKD My Author Page My S&C Blog My Dungeon Fantasy Game Blog "You fall onto five death checks." - Andy Dokachev |
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06-20-2013, 01:19 PM | #7 |
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Re: DF Artillery Mages Noodling
I can see some appeal in better replicating the big game changer spells, but IME DF already does that fairly well. A three turn maxxed missile spell from a Magery 6 mage does that nicely, as well as a lot of the area spells.
The thing that I have personally experienced, and have seen several complaints about, it the deficit of actions for arty mages. Existing missile spells are more or less built to force ROF 1/2 or lower, and IME that deters their use a lot. Players like to take a significant action every round. Non boss fights tend to be short. Old school delvers in Other Games tended to have the option of one spell per round, and at higher levels as emulated in DF, often just did that. GURPS missile mages don't. Realistic bows have the same problem but we have Heroic Archer to make a valid archer delver. Scouts don't make other delvers obsolete with their rapid bowfire though, so I don't think rapid "fire"fire would be intrinsically worse if it had a fair CP cost to damage return. So I guess I'm just saying that I'd like to be able to make throwing a missile spell every turn a reasonable niche for a Wizard. Not overpowered, not niche stealing, but reasonable. It might not be what everyone wants, but I don't think I'm alone either. Not that you need to stop talking about "big arty" here - go ahead. It's just not what I'm interested in. All that said, "artillery" might be exactly the wrong word here. "Riflemage" is wrong too though. "Warmage?" "Blaster Mage?" "Missileer?" "Missilseer?" |
06-20-2013, 01:22 PM | #8 |
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Re: DF Artillery Mages Noodling
OK, I lied, I am a little interested in this, and I have an issue: the way that is designed gives big piles of options that can be chosen anew every time a spell is cast. Requires a lot of player and GM discipline to keep the game running fast.
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06-20-2013, 01:59 PM | #9 |
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Ellicott City, MD
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Re: DF Artillery Mages Noodling
"Until further notice, every missile I cast is [insert modifier here]" saves a good bit of time, and works for most situations. Just remember to say you're NOT doing explosive when you try to snipe the gnoll in your archer's face.
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06-20-2013, 02:02 PM | #10 | |
GURPS Line Editor
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Montréal, Québec
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Re: DF Artillery Mages Noodling
Quote:
This trait gives wizards a little more choice in combat. Yes, they already get to choose spells, but in practice they fall back on a few of those. I imagine that they would do the same with this advantage: settle on favorite enhancement bundles. However, spells crossed with enhancements could at least make combat less boring for mages. I personally think that "toss a blast of energy every turn" is terribly boring, which is why I'm not in love with an approach that goes in that direction.
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Sean "Dr. Kromm" Punch <kromm@sjgames.com> GURPS Line Editor, Steve Jackson Games My DreamWidth [Just GURPS News] |
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Tags |
artillery mages, dungeon fantasy, go boom |
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