Star Trek: The Rebel Generation

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by dataweaver

So: what in the spinoff series (TNG, DS9, and Voyager) do you need to ignore in order for this hypothesis to hang together?

"Drumhead", ironically. I can't think of anything else offhand.

[AmesJainchill]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

2. Crime: They proudly boast that they have eliminated crime and so they have, by defining it as mental illness. Therefore there are no longer any lawyers or trials (except in the military where they have retained courts-martial). Once public security has determined that you have engaged acts injurious to society or yourself you are interviewed by a psychiatrist and then a therapeutic committee determines an appropriate course of treatment and their discretion is limitless short of executing you. It could be hour-long talk sessions once a week, a regimen of mood-stabilising drugs, indefinite confinement, hard labour on a colony world, or experimental neurosurgery. There is no presumption of innocence because guilt is not at issue in the first place.

Jesus, what a nightmare. When did they talk about this? I've watched a lot of the various series and don't remember.

[deathsaudit]

Originally Posted by AmesJainchill

Jesus, what a nightmare. When did they talk about this? I've watched a lot of the various series and don't remember.

I think this is how the game setting is different from the TV stuff.

[dataweaver]

They never actually talk about it, IIRC - but the idea that the Federation of the 24th century views criminal tendencies as an illness to be cured does fit with what I remember of the show; the rest is merely an exploration of some of the darker implications of such. It's similar to the suggestion that the position of Ship's Counselor is essentially a refinement of the political officer concept.

[LoneWolf23k]

Don't forget there are Federation Laws against Genetic engineering, especially creating "variant humans". So you could an underground culture of genetic engineers and their creations, working their experiments on fringe worlds away from Starfleet Patrols...

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by LoneWolf23k

Don't forget there are Federation Laws against Genetic engineering, especially creating "variant humans". So you could an underground culture of genetic engineers and their creations, working their experiments on fringe worlds away from Starfleet Patrols...

Top ten wanted criminals listing Dr. M
wanted for illegal curing of thousands of genetic disease aflicted humans and in violation of the prime directive millions of prespace travel aliens.
The horror!

[Gold & Appel Inc]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

3. Politics: The Federation is an ungainly patchwork of species in varying degrees of integration into the system. Very few of the member species conform sufficient to human standards of government enough to attain an actual seat on the Federation Council and access to the full technology of Earth and the other Founding members. Most simply have associate membership.

"Why must our people scratch at the dirt or starve? Why should we waste time that could be spent educating ourselves on manufacturing and transportation? The Founding Members deny us full access to their technology to keep us in oppression! They say we will have access when we govern ourselves in the manner of their choosing, instead of by our own traditions! Well I say no more! If we do not act today, our children are slaves tomorrow! Who's with me!?"

[Infornific]

Originally Posted by AmesJainchill

Jesus, what a nightmare. When did they talk about this? I've watched a lot of the various series and don't remember.

They didn't. In the "The Drumhead" Picard refers to a right against self-incrimination, calls it the "Fifth Guarantee" and states that it is one of the most important rights. So the Federation has a bill of rights that assumes the existence of criminal trials. There's another trial episode to determine whether Data is a person. Deep Space Nine had multiple episodes involving investigation and prosecution of crimes on a space station more or less run by the Federation. When Sisko catches Quark breaking the law early on, he doesn't recommend psychiatric treatment but instead uses it as leverage to make Quark keep his bar open. Now you could argue that the cases usually don't involve Federation law, but no one in Starfleet seems to find anything odd about the proceedings. The only time Star Trek had an episode suggesting all crime was mental illness was in the original series.

It's also worth noting that ordinary citizens (Picard's brother, Sisko's dad, etc.) don't seem terribly intimidated by Federation authorities. Homefront makes it clear that Starfleet is under civilian control. On one TNG episode, an old man (Federation citizen) threatens Riker and Worf with a phaser - they talk him out of it with no subsequent consequences, other than Worf expressing admiration for the man's guts. Authoritarian soldiers and cops are not that reasonable and understanding. You can make a version of the Federation that's authoritarian but it's not really supported by the source material.

- DW

[Captain-Captain]

Originally Posted by dataweaver

They never actually talk about it, IIRC - but the idea that the Federation of the 24th century views criminal tendencies as an illness to be cured does fit with what I remember of the show; the rest is merely an exploration of some of the darker implications of such. It's similar to the suggestion that the position of Ship's Counselor is essentially a refinement of the political officer concept.

TOS: the episode where Yvonne Craig was slathered in green makeup. There was a penal colony with 'all seven' of the incurable criminals in the Federation.

[Captain-Captain]

Originally Posted by Infornific

They didn't. In the "The Drumhead" Picard refers to a right against self-incrimination, calls it the "Fifth Guarantee" and states that it is one of the most important rights. So the Federation has a bill of rights that assumes the existence of criminal trials. There's another trial episode to determine whether Data is a person. Deep Space Nine had multiple episodes involving investigation and prosecution of crimes on a space station more or less run by the Federation. When Sisko catches Quark breaking the law early on, he doesn't recommend psychiatric treatment but instead uses it as leverage to make Quark keep his bar open. Now you could argue that the cases usually don't involve Federation law, but no one in Starfleet seems to find anything odd about the proceedings. The only time Star Trek had an episode suggesting all crime was mental illness was in the original series.

It's also worth noting that ordinary citizens (Picard's brother, Sisko's dad, etc.) don't seem terribly intimidated by Federation authorities. Homefront makes it clear that Starfleet is under civilian control. On one TNG episode, an old man (Federation citizen) threatens Riker and Worf with a phaser - they talk him out of it with no subsequent consequences, other than Worf expressing admiration for the man's guts. Authoritarian soldiers and cops are not that reasonable and understanding. You can make a version of the Federation that's authoritarian but it's not really supported by the source material.

- DW

TNG had an episode where Riker phasers down his clones on the basis he had the right to do so. VERY bad episode. However, DS9 has an episode where killing your clone is murder, a differnce between Federation Law and Bajoran law.