thrown weapons and facing

[ecz]

slightly OT but is there a similar discussion in the past when the new Melee has been published a couple of years ago?

Cannot believe that this ambiguity in the rules has not been noticed immediatly.

May be that the old discussion (if any) could give more hits. Frankly speaking I do not see very useful the discussion about hex spines.

[Skarg]

Originally Posted by ecz

slightly OT but is there a similar discussion in the past when the new Melee has been published a couple of years ago?

Cannot believe that this ambiguity in the rules has not been noticed immediatly.

May be that the old discussion (if any) could give more hits. Frankly speaking I do not see very useful the discussion about hex spines.

Yes, I remember at least one several-page discussion of whether thrown weapons and jabs get facing bonuses before, perhaps two or three such discussions, plus occasional mentions here or there.

What do you mean about giving more hits?

[Skarg]

For those who do think facing modifiers apply to thrown weapons, do you also apply facing modifiers to rolls to MISS?

(If you do, it makes it easier to miss your friends if they're not facing you when you try to shoot past them. And it makes it easier to avoid hitting foes in the way if they aren't facing you. Neither of these things make much sense to me, and seem to me like further sign that facing isn't supposed to apply to any ranged attacks.)

[ecz]

Originally Posted by Skarg

Yes, I remember at least one several-page discussion of whether thrown weapons and jabs get facing bonuses before, perhaps two or three such discussions, plus occasional mentions here or there.

What do you mean about giving more hits?

sorry for my English. Hints not hits... :D

Anyway, for what it's worth I'll play as RAW using the DX bonus for side/rear for everything but missile weapons (and spells).

I think that it's a simple and fair way to manage long distance shots (usually those coming from bows/crossobows) leaving the importance of facing for close combat, where TWs are more common.

Besides I imagine it's a way to facilitate the use of TWs and to compensate the heavy penalty imposed for distance.

[Shostak]

Originally Posted by Skarg

For those who do think facing modifiers apply to thrown weapons, do you also apply facing modifiers to rolls to MISS?

The example below the diagram on ITL 114 make no mention of modifiers other than range so no, I wouldn't. Too bad the diagram did not have the letter symbols rotated to show facing (are we really to believe every figure is facing the same way?); it would have been far more useful if it had! As it is, one could take the failure to note facing modifiers as justification for or against giving thrown attacks the benefit.

[Skarg]

Originally Posted by Shostak

The example below the diagram on ITL 114 make no mention of modifiers other than range so no, I wouldn't. Too bad the diagram did not have the letter symbols rotated to show facing (are we really to believe every figure is facing the same way?); it would have been far more useful if it had! As it is, one could take the failure to note facing modifiers as justification for or against giving thrown attacks the benefit.

As someone who remains convinced the intent is that facing has no effect on any ranged attacks, I would note that the lack of facing, and the fact that A is throwing though all those figure's Side and Rear hexes with no DX modifier applied, as well as the fact that they did not think to show any other facings, nor mention anything about facing, all tends to favor the reading that facing has no effect on thrown attacks.

[phiwum]

Originally Posted by Skarg

As someone who remains convinced the intent is that facing has no effect on any ranged attacks, I would note that the lack of facing, and the fact that A is throwing though all those figure's Side and Rear hexes with no DX modifier applied, as well as the fact that they did not think to show any other facings, nor mention anything about facing, all tends to favor the reading that facing has no effect on thrown attacks.

So far, I agree with Skarg. The rules as written discusses physical attacks made from a rear hex, not across a rear hexside.

However, RAW suggests that thrown attacks from an adjacent hex get a facing bonus, which just seems odd at best, so I'd say the intention is still a bit unclear.

[Steve Plambeck]

Originally Posted by Skarg

For those who do think facing modifiers apply to thrown weapons, do you also apply facing modifiers to rolls to MISS?

(If you do, it makes it easier to miss your friends if they're not facing you when you try to shoot past them. And it makes it easier to avoid hitting foes in the way if they aren't facing you. Neither of these things make much sense to me, and seem to me like further sign that facing isn't supposed to apply to any ranged attacks.)

That alone being such an ugly can of worms should be sufficient evidence that facing of target was never intended to matter in any ranged attacks.

[Axly Suregrip]

I just found this, in the old GM screen in the Thrown Combat Bonus section it does list +2 for side and +4 for rear.

I list this even through I was arguing for no facing bonus for throws earlier. Please note that in the new legacy GM screen these bonus are no longer listed in the thrown section (only the range modifier now).

So, this certainly was cannon at one time. But since it is now not in the new GM screen this alone won't settle the arguement.

[phiwum]

Originally Posted by Axly Suregrip

I just found this, in the old GM screen in the Thrown Combat Bonus section it does list +2 for side and +4 for rear.

I list this even through I was arguing for no facing bonus for throws earlier. Please note that in the new legacy GM screen these bonus are no longer listed in the thrown section (only the range modifier now).

So, this certainly was cannon at one time. But since it is now not in the new GM screen this alone won't settle the arguement.

In sum, you're just making trouble.






Actually, that's pretty interesting. Was it left off the new screen intentionally or not? Would be nice to know.