Forsaken Lands

b-dog · 06-06-2019, 02:40 PM

I am curious about how you would handle forsaken lands as opposed to unholy lands. In my conception, an unholy land is an area where the forces of evil have pushed their way in through brute force and then increased unholy sanctity by Infernal power. Like an evil cult worshipping a demon lord.

Forsaken land in my conception would be areas where the Divine has withdrawn instead of being pushed out. It is more of a punishment to those who lived in the land that must have angered the Divine. Maybe the people were wicked and the Divine decided not to protect them any more so demons and devils gathered in that area because it was more easily accessible. Maybe the Divine did not prevent them from crossing in to the mortal realm in the forsaken land.

I imagine the sanctity would be the same between unholy and forsaken lands; probably low holy sanctity and high unholy sanctity and black magic would be strong. I guess the main difference would be that the Divine would be actively battling to defeat the forces of the Infernal in unholy land while the Divine would just pull up shop in forsaken land and allow the evil to fester, most likely as a punishment for the behavior of the people who were living there. Any thoughts?

b-dog · 06-06-2019, 03:38 PM

Could there be a Forsaken disadvantage? I would think it would be like ex-communicated but worse. Not only would the forces of good dislike you but it would be open season on the forsaken PC by demons too. The Divine protection has been lifted and his soul is ripe for the taking. Demons would attack the forsaken PC on sight because the forsaken one has no allegiance or use to the Infernal so they just see him as easy meat. Over time the forsaken PC could join the Infernal through service and possibly offering his soul. But forsaken would just mean that the Divine has abandoned the PC. To get forsaken I would think the PC must be completely selfish and offend the Divine. The forsaken PC would have a choice, atone for his sins, accept his fate or plead with the Infernal to spare him and then offer his soul and his service.

An evil cleric or wizard would not be forsaken, they would be in the service of the Infernal. A forsaken PC just has no Divine protection so the good folk react badly to him while the Infernal see an easy way to get a soul.

b-dog · 06-06-2019, 03:53 PM

Possible ways to become forsaken; Some horribly evil act like killing innocents, destroying a temple or stealing holy items from a church, killing a priest, breaking a holy seal imprisoning a demon, touching an extremely evil magic item or temple altar, killing an angel.

b-dog · 06-06-2019, 05:24 PM

The more I think of it a forsaken land would just mean that it’ is low holy sanctity and not necessarily high unholy sanctity. Most likely just normal unholy sanctity but there could be areas of high unholy where demons and evil temples are.

Use of magic could create forsaken lands because humans do not properly revere the Divine and instead rely on their own sorceries. For that reason many of the peasants and townspeople do not like wizards, witches and other magic users. The townsfolk could have their town forsaken if the Divine is displeased by magic use.

Wizards and demonologists could easily get the forsaken disadvantage through spell use especially necromantic spells. I would think that critical failures could include becoming forsaken if the wizard casts zombie or the light spell or summons a demon.

Þorkell · 06-06-2019, 05:30 PM

So, to be clear, you see forsaken lands as worse than unholy lands? Since good has given up on them. So to reclaim them if they want to would it go Forsaken>Unholy>whatever's next?

Yssa · 06-06-2019, 10:04 PM

I'm also not totally clear if you mean "forsaken" to be farther from the diving than "unholy," vice versa, or, if the two aren't correlated. Here is another way to think about it that could be fun:

The Extended Sanctity Continuum:

Very High Sanctity <> High Sanctity <> Normal Sanctity <> Low Sanctity <> Forsaken <> Low Unholy Sanctity <> Normal Unholy Sanctity <> High Unholy Sanctity <> Very High Unholy Sanctity

In this conceptualization, everything to the left is exactly as described in Spells (5). "Forsaken" is the equivalent to "No Sanctity," meaning that it is fully devoid of all divine energy and clerical magic won't work. The right hand side is a mirror image of the left, and the levels of divine energy correspond, so the farther from the center you go (in either direction) the higher the level of divinity and the easier casting clerical magic becomes. . .

The catch ('cause what's the fun if there's no catch?) is that although there is divine energy to draw on in areas of unholy sanctity, it's the wrong sort of divinity, and it is eager to corrupt our noble Cleric from the (presumably "good") gods they follow. Naturally, the higher the unholy sanctity, the more powerful its corrupting influence is, so while you can probably get away with drawing on Low Unholy Sanctity while resisting the temptation(s) of these unholy gods, a single spell cast in a place of Very High Unholy Sanctity is likely to fully corrupt the cleric to the whims of evil.

Probably a Will check would make the most sense here: Each time you cast a spell in an unholy space, roll versus will, penalized for the level of unholiness (say: -2 for low, -4 for normal, -8 for high, -16 for very high [Yay! anoter reason to bump your will to 25!]), any failure leads to corruption.

Now, what that corruption actually looks like, I have no idea. That's something for me to pray to the Elders over. . .

b-dog · 06-06-2019, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Þorkell

So, to be clear, you see forsaken lands as worse than unholy lands? Since good has given up on them. So to reclaim them if they want to would it go Forsaken>Unholy>whatever's next?

What I think of as unholy lands are lands that are conquered by big E Evil like demon lords, liches, vampires evil clerics and wizards. In this case the people who were conquered can be rescued even if they have been killed and their soul is in Hell as angels at the end times will fight the final battle to save the souls captured by the Infernal.

Forsaken lands are lands where the mortal population has chosen evil. They were not forced into choosing evil they embraced it for power, luxury and other vices. Think Sodom and Gomorrah or the world before the great Flood. There is no redemption and the Divine has abandoned those lands. Supernatural Evil does not need huge armies because the land is already corrupted and subdued. There is the occasional demon and many other Infernal beings. It is a place more of sorrow and misery as the people who live there try to indulge themselves before they die and spend eternity in Hell.

In short unholy land is land that Evil has captured but the Divine can fight for and redeem. Forsaken land is land that the Divine no longer fights for so there is no redemption unless the people repent their sins and atone them.

b-dog · 06-06-2019, 11:20 PM

The Bayanganaga seems like it could be a good monster to sick on the forsaken. Maybe a king has been dabbling in black magic and now his Divine right to rule has been revoked and the Divine allows the Infernal to do what it wishes with the corrupted king. The bayanganaga howls outside the kings castle. The king could offer huge amounts of treasure to defeat the bayanganaga.

A temple could also become corrupted and then forsaken thus allowing the Infernal a chance to destroy it.

06-06-2019, 02:40 PM	#1
b-dog Join Date: Nov 2006	Forsaken Lands I am curious about how you would handle forsaken lands as opposed to unholy lands. In my conception, an unholy land is an area where the forces of evil have pushed their way in through brute force and then increased unholy sanctity by Infernal power. Like an evil cult worshipping a demon lord. Forsaken land in my conception would be areas where the Divine has withdrawn instead of being pushed out. It is more of a punishment to those who lived in the land that must have angered the Divine. Maybe the people were wicked and the Divine decided not to protect them any more so demons and devils gathered in that area because it was more easily accessible. Maybe the Divine did not prevent them from crossing in to the mortal realm in the forsaken land. I imagine the sanctity would be the same between unholy and forsaken lands; probably low holy sanctity and high unholy sanctity and black magic would be strong. I guess the main difference would be that the Divine would be actively battling to defeat the forces of the Infernal in unholy land while the Divine would just pull up shop in forsaken land and allow the evil to fester, most likely as a punishment for the behavior of the people who were living there. Any thoughts?

06-06-2019, 03:38 PM	#2
b-dog Join Date: Nov 2006	Re: Forsaken Lands Could there be a Forsaken disadvantage? I would think it would be like ex-communicated but worse. Not only would the forces of good dislike you but it would be open season on the forsaken PC by demons too. The Divine protection has been lifted and his soul is ripe for the taking. Demons would attack the forsaken PC on sight because the forsaken one has no allegiance or use to the Infernal so they just see him as easy meat. Over time the forsaken PC could join the Infernal through service and possibly offering his soul. But forsaken would just mean that the Divine has abandoned the PC. To get forsaken I would think the PC must be completely selfish and offend the Divine. The forsaken PC would have a choice, atone for his sins, accept his fate or plead with the Infernal to spare him and then offer his soul and his service. An evil cleric or wizard would not be forsaken, they would be in the service of the Infernal. A forsaken PC just has no Divine protection so the good folk react badly to him while the Infernal see an easy way to get a soul.

06-06-2019, 03:53 PM	#3
b-dog Join Date: Nov 2006	Re: Forsaken Lands Possible ways to become forsaken; Some horribly evil act like killing innocents, destroying a temple or stealing holy items from a church, killing a priest, breaking a holy seal imprisoning a demon, touching an extremely evil magic item or temple altar, killing an angel.

06-06-2019, 05:24 PM	#4
b-dog Join Date: Nov 2006	Re: Forsaken Lands The more I think of it a forsaken land would just mean that it’ is low holy sanctity and not necessarily high unholy sanctity. Most likely just normal unholy sanctity but there could be areas of high unholy where demons and evil temples are. Use of magic could create forsaken lands because humans do not properly revere the Divine and instead rely on their own sorceries. For that reason many of the peasants and townspeople do not like wizards, witches and other magic users. The townsfolk could have their town forsaken if the Divine is displeased by magic use. Wizards and demonologists could easily get the forsaken disadvantage through spell use especially necromantic spells. I would think that critical failures could include becoming forsaken if the wizard casts zombie or the light spell or summons a demon.

06-06-2019, 05:30 PM	#5
Þorkell Icelandic - Approach With Caution Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Reykjavík, Iceland	Re: Forsaken Lands So, to be clear, you see forsaken lands as worse than unholy lands? Since good has given up on them. So to reclaim them if they want to would it go Forsaken>Unholy>whatever's next? __________________ Þorkell Sigvaldason Viking kittens \| My photos \| More of my photos

06-06-2019, 10:04 PM	#6
Yssa Join Date: Mar 2019	Re: Forsaken Lands I'm also not totally clear if you mean "forsaken" to be farther from the diving than "unholy," vice versa, or, if the two aren't correlated. Here is another way to think about it that could be fun: The Extended Sanctity Continuum: Very High Sanctity <> High Sanctity <> Normal Sanctity <> Low Sanctity <> Forsaken <> Low Unholy Sanctity <> Normal Unholy Sanctity <> High Unholy Sanctity <> Very High Unholy Sanctity In this conceptualization, everything to the left is exactly as described in Spells (5). "Forsaken" is the equivalent to "No Sanctity," meaning that it is fully devoid of all divine energy and clerical magic won't work. The right hand side is a mirror image of the left, and the levels of divine energy correspond, so the farther from the center you go (in either direction) the higher the level of divinity and the easier casting clerical magic becomes. . . The catch ('cause what's the fun if there's no catch?) is that although there is divine energy to draw on in areas of unholy sanctity, it's the wrong sort of divinity, and it is eager to corrupt our noble Cleric from the (presumably "good") gods they follow. Naturally, the higher the unholy sanctity, the more powerful its corrupting influence is, so while you can probably get away with drawing on Low Unholy Sanctity while resisting the temptation(s) of these unholy gods, a single spell cast in a place of Very High Unholy Sanctity is likely to fully corrupt the cleric to the whims of evil. Probably a Will check would make the most sense here: Each time you cast a spell in an unholy space, roll versus will, penalized for the level of unholiness (say: -2 for low, -4 for normal, -8 for high, -16 for very high [Yay! anoter reason to bump your will to 25!]), any failure leads to corruption. Now, what that corruption actually looks like, I have no idea. That's something for me to pray to the Elders over. . .

06-06-2019, 11:20 PM	#8
b-dog Join Date: Nov 2006	Re: Forsaken Lands The Bayanganaga seems like it could be a good monster to sick on the forsaken. Maybe a king has been dabbling in black magic and now his Divine right to rule has been revoked and the Divine allows the Infernal to do what it wishes with the corrupted king. The bayanganaga howls outside the kings castle. The king could offer huge amounts of treasure to defeat the bayanganaga. A temple could also become corrupted and then forsaken thus allowing the Infernal a chance to destroy it.