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Old 06-15-2009, 06:25 AM   #11
demonsbane
 
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Default Re: Melee/Man To Man vs 4th Edition

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Originally Posted by thatjimguy View Post
I have a fondness for the system even back when it was called "Melee". It had a grittiness to it that was unrivaled.

Now 4th Edition is out and I hear that they made it more for "theatrical" combat. Is this the case? Or could I still play it and feel like I was playing "Man to Man" all over again?
IMHO the answer is yes.

BTW, GURPS Martial Arts: Gladiators will be released soon, and not for "fixing" 4e rules regarding Man-to-Man, but as a GURPS 4e sourcebook.
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Old 06-15-2009, 06:37 AM   #12
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Default Re: Melee/Man To Man vs 4th Edition

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Originally Posted by sjmdw45 View Post
(...) I don't know if you ever played the old BattleTech flip books, but sometimes 4e combat reminds me of that: a duel between you and your opponent where you're each trying to outguess your opponent.
As for myself, I'm not sure. I had minimal experience with wargames and board games as Battletech.

Can you point some titles as examples of these Battletech flip books you are mentioning?
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Old 06-15-2009, 10:06 AM   #13
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Default Re: Melee/Man To Man vs 4th Edition

I haven't played Man to Man, so can't make any comparisons or give advice on getting 4e to emulate it.

I believe the reason PD was removed from 4e was twofold: first, it kept everyone from loading up on heavy metal armor and big shields and PD-increasing magic and superpowers, and thereafter becoming almost totally impossible to hit with anything, and second, it allowed people to play those ninjas and bare-chested monks and swashbucklers that are so popular without having them automatically get mowed down by incoming attacks.
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Old 06-15-2009, 01:18 PM   #14
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Default Re: Melee/Man To Man vs 4th Edition

Passive Defense was removed primarily because the way to get high PD was to wear the heaviest armor you could afford whilst carrying the largest shield available. This would ding your Dodge score by 1-4, depending on your ST, but raise your Dodge roll by 1-8. Thus, there was a large regime wherein "so much protection that you need to spend FP even to stagger" gave a net +1 to +4 to your odds of ducking a blow. Explanations that this meant dodging just enough that the blow glanced off armor were rejected by most gamers. Doing away with PD solved the problem.

As for why variable, equipment-based PD was replaced by a functionally similar +3 built into the basic defense score: That lets unarmored fighters successfully dodge and parry blows without massive armor and shield, which is more realistic. Unarmored fighters are the ones who dodge and parry, while heavily armored ones tend to rely more on armor stopping blows (a function of DR, not PD).
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