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Old 10-04-2013, 12:37 PM   #61
Ack
 
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Default Re: grappling a flier

You weigh what you weigh, but you don't necessarily act like it at all times.

For a trivial example not related to your situation, if the ST 200 guy was a flier, that would imply he can exert that ST 200 to the fullest straight down without an anchor. In that case, you're not flying anywhere. You can't drag Superman all over town by taking his feet off the ground.[/quote]

I understand this perfectly. Fliers can 'fly down' and make themselves hard to lift.

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Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
And it's not just fliers whose super ST doesn't play so simply. ST 200 guy can pick up a two-ton car in one hand and fling it. But if he does, does he get hurled in the opposite direction? For a low-angle throw with full respect to Newton, he's thrown the other way at twice the car's velocity! But supers tend not to smash themselves though walls with reaction when doing things like that, which leads to the possibility that their ST doesn't work exactly the same as impossibly powerful muscles.
This works in much the same way that allows Superman to pick up an oil tanker without it breaking in half. Perfect traction, so to speak. Comic book physics. Same way the Flash can actually accelerate to Mach 1 without tearing up a hundred yards of pavement (and his feet).

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Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
There's not actually a super-clean breakdown of what is responsible for what and what hurts or helps at the core of any of that. And there's the competing desires to make character weight a freely-chosen cosmetic value (because GURPS does not want to dictate body shape judgements) and to not ignore it when it is logically important. Most printed rules are more closely aligned with the former.

There's nothing un-generic going on here.
I am perfectly fine with all that.

What I'm not fine with is being told "You can't take off because you're Grappled" and then have it morph into "You can't take off because he has a mystical ability to use his ST to hold you in place, even though he has no movement capability to exert it like that."
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Old 10-04-2013, 12:38 PM   #62
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Default Re: grappling a flier

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Originally Posted by Ack View Post
However, if the character uses the ST for Jumping rule, does that follow that he has massless ST automatically?

Because the character has already demonstrated a prodigious leaping capability.
Gotta check if he paid for prodigious amounts of Super-Jumping first. From reading some of your GM's post, I suspect he has, as the idea of basing jumping off of ST vs mass hadnt occurred to him yet.

Remember, if Hulkster has an applicable movement power, that movement power gets his full ST for free. So he might be ST200 and able to leap 5 miles, just by splurging on a few dozen levels of Super Jump.
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Old 10-04-2013, 12:39 PM   #63
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Default Re: grappling a flier

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Gotta check if he paid for prodigious amounts of Super-Jumping first. From reading some of your GM's post, I suspect he has, as the idea of basing jumping off of ST vs mass hadnt occurred to him yet.

Remember, if Hulkster has an applicable movement power, that movement power gets his full ST for free. So he might be ST200 and able to leap 5 miles, just by splurging on a few dozen levels of Super Jump.
Have asked. Have gotten no answer yet.

If he has no levels of Super Jump, then ...
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Old 10-04-2013, 12:43 PM   #64
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Default Re: grappling a flier

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I agree. It needs to be clearly defined one way or another to prevent confusion in the game. Super inertia is quite a bit more common in four color stories, true, but I will admit that I am a bit of a physics geek, and trend toward realism whenever I can do so while staying within the rules.

It's a tough call though, as I would essentially be altering the rules (with Kromm's advice) to suit realism better... which is a VERY slippery slope, especially with a player like Ack.

No offense meant, Ack, but you are a pretty classic power gamer. If I alter one rule in favor of realism, every time you think of a new way to abuse physics to get what you want, you'll be coming back at me to change the rules a bit more... and a bit more.

It would be nice if our gaming system perfectly emulated reality, (excepting of course where we WANT to break physics over our knee) but in the end, it's a game, and it's a whole lot easier to just use the rules we've got than to constantly rewrite them to better suit the universe we're envisioning together.

Easy way, or hard way? *sighs*
Power gamer?

This is a TWO THOUSAND POINT GAME. It's hard NOT to be a power gamer.

And excuse me, but my character has a maximum ST of about 110, and a max DR of 130. No ranged attacks at all.

Villain one: flies faster than my character, has a 40d6 laser blast.

Villain two: our aforementioned Hulkoid, with ST 200 and Striking ST extended to 380.

My character is not the overpowered one.
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Old 10-04-2013, 12:47 PM   #65
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Default Re: grappling a flier

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Originally Posted by Ack View Post
This works in much the same way that allows Superman to pick up an oil tanker without it breaking in half. Perfect traction, so to speak. Comic book physics. Same way the Flash can actually accelerate to Mach 1 without tearing up a hundred yards of pavement (and his feet).
Bet you could find an example of someone fastballing a a large object while leaping through the air.

Yes, it's comic book physics. One aspect of comic book physics is that for every action there is only sometimes an equal and opposite reaction.
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I am perfectly fine with all that.

What I'm not fine with is being told "You can't take off because you're Grappled" and then have it morph into "You can't take off because he has a mystical ability to use his ST to hold you in place, even though he has no movement capability to exert it like that."
You're playing Supers. That may not be how this particular guy works, but there's no real reason it couldn't be how somebody works. Newtonian physics is more like guidelines.
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Old 10-04-2013, 12:48 PM   #66
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Default Re: grappling a flier

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Originally Posted by chandley View Post
Gotta check if he paid for prodigious amounts of Super-Jumping first. From reading some of your GM's post, I suspect he has, as the idea of basing jumping off of ST vs mass hadnt occurred to him yet.

Remember, if Hulkster has an applicable movement power, that movement power gets his full ST for free. So he might be ST200 and able to leap 5 miles, just by splurging on a few dozen levels of Super Jump.
Okay, yes, he's got Super Jump.

But on a related note:

Take a character who can jump five miles with Super Jump.

Calculate his speed. It will impress you.

Then calculate the damage he does landing.

It will impress you more.
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Old 10-04-2013, 12:49 PM   #67
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Default Re: grappling a flier

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Power gamer?

This is a TWO THOUSAND POINT GAME. It's hard NOT to be a power gamer.

And excuse me, but my character has a maximum ST of about 110, and a max DR of 130. No ranged attacks at all.

Villain one: flies faster than my character, has a 40d6 laser blast.

Villain two: our aforementioned Hulkoid, with ST 200 and Striking ST extended to 380.

My character is not the overpowered one.
Power gamer is a statement about you, not your PC.
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Old 10-04-2013, 12:57 PM   #68
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Default Re: grappling a flier

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Power gamer is a statement about you, not your PC.
I'm not the one who went into the game with a combat monster.
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Old 10-04-2013, 12:59 PM   #69
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Default Re: grappling a flier

And can we please get a basic answer on the other question:

All other factors being equal, if the non-flyer is grappling the flyer, is it the Grappling rules preventing the flyer from taking off with the grappler, or the "super-inertia"?

I really do want to know this.
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Old 10-04-2013, 01:00 PM   #70
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Default Re: grappling a flier

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I'm not the one who went into the game with a combat monster.
Regrettably, power gamer is also a term that has a variety of meanings. I don't think the one you're thinking of is the one in question.
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