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Old 07-14-2015, 06:01 AM   #1
Anders
 
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Default Waking up

I just read this comic and that made me think. Yeah, having a sentry is really important, but people still have to wake up, get their bearings, find their weapons, etc. So what I propose is that being woken up suddenly counts as Total Surprise (this may already be a rule). That should make night attacks pretty deadly.

Or is this already implemented? What do you think? Personally I usually need a good ten or fifteen seconds before I'm ready to do anything, and half an hour at least before you can ask me to think.
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Old 07-14-2015, 07:05 AM   #2
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Default Re: Waking up

It depends on people involved.

Personally, I wake up instantly almost all the time. But that (plus many other factors) may be, in game terms, due to Combat Reflexes. Or, the one bright side-effect of lifelong insomnia. Who knows...

But I know most people do take some time to wake up, ranging from a few seconds to several minutes. The game mechanic of having to roll to recover from shock/surprise/etc works to simulate that pretty well.
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Old 07-14-2015, 07:35 AM   #3
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Default Re: Waking up

Treating being woken up as Total Surprise seems appropriate (and note that characters with Combat Reflexes would treat it as Partial Surprise instead).

I understand the sentiment of needing several seconds to actually wake up, and several minutes to actually be fully functional. I'm the same way normally - but when there's some sort of (real or perceived) disaster I'm up and fully awake almost instantly.
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Old 07-14-2015, 08:07 AM   #4
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Default Re: Waking up

Campaigns (p.393) does say that guards and adventurers should "rarely suffer total surprise unless they are actually asleep." This implies that total surprise is appropriate for sleepers.

Combat reflexes provides an obvious exception, and also give a bonus to waking up if there is a nearby disturbance. Light Sleeper makes it easier to wake, but doesn't say anything about waking up more functional or avoiding surprise when you do.

Slow riser gives minuses to IQ rolls for an hour after waking, that would include the rolls to recover from mental stun. I don't know of any corresponding advantage other than Combat Reflexes that avoids surprise or gives bonuses to recover from mental stun on waking.

An Awaken spell would be the best thing for a sentry to have to get his party up and ready to fight without delay.
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Old 07-14-2015, 08:26 AM   #5
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Default Re: Waking up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
Treating being woken up as Total Surprise seems appropriate (and note that characters with Combat Reflexes would treat it as Partial Surprise instead).

I understand the sentiment of needing several seconds to actually wake up, and several minutes to actually be fully functional. I'm the same way normally - but when there's some sort of (real or perceived) disaster I'm up and fully awake almost instantly.
I think 'almost instantly' could possibly include a couple of seconds that you aren't fully aware of, as you gain consciousness.

Adrenaline certainly can counteract the groggy few minutes most of us have when we first wake up, but I think you have to be aware enough of the disaster to get the adrenaline going first. Someone springing out of bed ready for action the same second as the stimulus that woke them is pretty cinematic. Combat reflexes works for that.

Otherwise a d6 seconds freeze, then an IQ roll per second to overcome mental stun is probably reasonable for most people being woken up. There's a reason attacking people in their sleep is usually a successful tactic.
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Old 07-14-2015, 10:04 AM   #6
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Default Re: Waking up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anders
I just read this comic and that made me think. Yeah, having a sentry is really important, but people still have to wake up, get their bearings, find their weapons, etc. So what I propose is that being woken up suddenly counts as Total Surprise (this may already be a rule). That should make night attacks pretty deadly.

Or is this already implemented? What do you think? Personally I usually need a good ten or fifteen seconds before I'm ready to do anything, and half an hour at least before you can ask me to think.
As has been said, it depends on who’s involved but it also depends on when.

Historically, night attacks, even during the first half of the 20th century weren’t very common and didn’t have a very high success rate. In pre-firearms periods the problem was largely one of co-ordination. It was too easy for units to get separated and end up attacking other units from their own side in the mistaken belief that they were the intended enemy. Ranged attacks on a sleeping camp or mechanical artillery fire (catapults and ballista, for example) on a castle were somewhat more successful than rushing the camp or castle during the night because you were less likely to end up attacking your own.

Once firearms and digging in became a thing, night attacks started to favour the prepared defender. Bullets have relatively flat trajectories, so firing at a tent that’s been placed in a trench 6” deep is going to wake up the people inside without hitting anyone as the bullets zip by above chest level. That assumes that they aren’t fully dug in and sleeping in finished trenches, in which event, you have the problem of finding them by NOT doing it the hard way and unexpectedly dropping in on them.

The other thing is, it depends on whether they have a trained response to a night attack and what that response is. If people come rushing out of their tents while still getting dressed and start pulling their personal weapon from a cone of stacked weapons as seen in movies set during the U.S. Civil War, that’s one thing. If their response is to have dug a slit trench by the tent with each man’s kit laid out alongside the tent, so he just needs to grab his helmet, rifle and flak jacket as he crawls into the trench from under the edge of the tent that’s a different thing, as is having a set of night goggles to slap on.

Now I have been talking about military units as opposed to adventurers but it seems that many adventuring parties do adopt drills similar to small unit tactics, so it’s not necessarily an unreasonable point. I would say that it may take a few seconds to come fully awake and Total and Partial Surprise are reasonable ways to represent that but it also depends. Partial and No Surprise may be better representations for waking up “on the front lines of a war zone” or “deep in Apache country when Geronimo was known to be on the prowl.”

The main point, I’m trying to make is that it depends on whether the party has a drill for night attacks and what the drill is, as well as how practiced they are in performing the drill. The military puts a fair bit of emphasis on drills because drills will let you function effectively in high stress situations where your thinking may be a bit muzzy by substituting a trained response for thinking about what you need to do in this situation.

I do agree that a party should need time to find their weapons and defenses (armor, shields, NBCW gear, particularly if they aren't in the habit of laying things out just so before retiring for the evening. One thing that ought to create a problem in that case is the possibility of picking up the wrong gear. While it won't make much difference if we're all using our issue shortswords, it can be a real problem if you grab any old rifle only to discover "no wonder I can't hit the broad side of a barn, this isn't my rifle. I wonder who this was sighted in for?"
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Old 07-14-2015, 10:13 AM   #7
ericthered
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Default Re: Waking up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Sandman View Post
Adrenaline certainly can counteract the groggy few minutes most of us have when we first wake up, but I think you have to be aware enough of the disaster to get the adrenaline going first. Someone springing out of bed ready for action the same second as the stimulus that woke them is pretty cinematic. Combat reflexes works for that.
I've woken up like that. Most of the time because I went to bed expecting something important in the morning, or because turning off my 3 AM alarm quickly is very important to maintain good relations with those in the house.

Of course, in those situations, the first few seconds are dominated by 'scripted' actions that may rely more on knowing the layout of my bedroom by heart rather than actual awareness.
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Old 07-14-2015, 11:34 AM   #8
Lia Valenth
 
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Default Re: Waking up

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Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
I've woken up like that. Most of the time because
Of course, in those situations, the first few seconds are dominated by 'scripted' actions that may rely more on knowing the layout of my bedroom by heart rather than actual awareness.
This is a good point, and could be extended to adventurers. Just get used to setting your camp up the same way and grabbing your weapon and simplest to equip armor as soon as you wake up.

Possibly let them take predefined actions they can use instantly when waking for a perk?
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Old 07-14-2015, 11:59 AM   #9
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Default Re: Waking up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lia Valenth View Post
This is a good point, and could be extended to adventurers. Just get used to setting your camp up the same way and grabbing your weapon and simplest to equip armor as soon as you wake up.

Possibly let them take predefined actions they can use instantly when waking for a perk?
Which of course leads to the classic scene where you touch lightly the sleeping warrior and next thing you know he's pointing a sword at you -- because its his automatic reflex.
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Old 07-14-2015, 12:10 PM   #10
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Default Re: Waking up

Most of the time it takes me a while to wake up, but one morning, my bookshelf fell on me.

I'd consider that a combat wake-up. That time, I was fully awake in seconds.
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