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Old 06-23-2019, 05:14 AM   #21
evileeyore
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Default Re: Cestus

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Originally Posted by Daigoro View Post
Game balance? Staff parry is already a good deal.
When has game balance been a consideration for weapon stats, ever?

And if you want to go that direction: Staff is a two-handed weapon with poor damage, which balances the Parry bonus.
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Old 06-23-2019, 06:27 AM   #22
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Default Re: Cestus

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Originally Posted by Daigoro View Post
Game balance? Staff parry is already a good deal.
Indeed, it is a good deal! But I myself wouldn't prohibit Weapon Master, Weapon Bond, Enhanced Parry, Combat Reflexes, generic high skill, or Fine (Balance) (if such were allowed for sticks) combined with staffs, as some sort of counter to that high Parry.

But maybe reining in staff Parry is indeed part of the thinking behind the prohibition of Fine (Balance) for sticks. I don't know.

Either way, for any GM wondering whether the prohibition is really necessary, my recommendation would be simple: Allow it. See if something breaks.
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Old 06-23-2019, 08:22 AM   #23
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Default Re: Cestus

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Originally Posted by tbone View Post
Allow it. See if something breaks.
Nothing breaks.

Yes, it's a 'cheap' +1 to Parry*, but it really doesn't affect much.



* A Balanced Staff costs $50 and a Weapon Bond 1 character point.
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Old 07-05-2019, 08:55 PM   #24
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Default Re: Cestus

Well, guess what? If you have it, Pyramid 3/89 page 23. lets sticks have the balance mod, but at an increased price. +14 CF instead of +4 CF.
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Old 07-05-2019, 11:30 PM   #25
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Well, guess what? If you have it, Pyramid 3/89 page 23. lets sticks have the balance mod, but at an increased price. +14 CF instead of +4 CF.
Good find! I was essentially thinking the same thing: if a GM can't think of a material reason to disallow balanced sticks, but isn't happy with how cheap the option is, just raise the cost.

In-game justification (if wanted): Creating masterful balance requires a lot of additional work, not more expensive materials. Unlike swords, etc., which use expensive materials, the cost of a stick weapon is almost entirely the cost of the work. Thus, masterful balance raises the cost of sticks by a higher percentage.

I didn't have an idea in mind for how much extra the option should cost, so I'll stick with this published suggestion in Pyramid. ($150 for a well-balanced quarterstaff is some really expensive wood, but we'll see whether there are any takers. . . )
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Old 07-06-2019, 06:17 AM   #26
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Default Re: Cestus

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Originally Posted by tbone View Post
In-game justification (if wanted): Creating masterful balance requires a lot of additional work, not more expensive materials. Unlike swords, etc., which use expensive materials, the cost of a stick weapon is almost entirely the cost of the work. Thus, masterful balance raises the cost of sticks by a higher percentage.
Not to "historical skills'splain" at you.... but it's the same with swords. Historically, better steal/bronze came from more work (and better skill), not more expensive of materials. And even when better steal was available straight away, it's still a forging process and the cost difference isn't so high as to make that difference. It still comes down to how long the smith needs to take in working the metals, forging, etc.


Now, this doesn't touch when you are using truly exotic and expensive material. Forging a sword from the iron in the blood of 1K sacrifice victims, well, that's priceless.
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Old 07-06-2019, 07:50 AM   #27
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Default Re: Cestus

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Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
Not to "historical skills'splain" at you.... but it's the same with swords. Historically, better steal/bronze came from more work (and better skill), not more expensive of materials.
That's not what he said. He said that making a balanced stick takes a lot more labor relative to the starting price.
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Old 07-06-2019, 03:51 PM   #28
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Default Re: Cestus

I've made spear shafts and staves using nothing but a machete and sandpaper. Saplings and coppiced branches are preferable to large trees. It takes a while to develop a good technique but the job goes much more quickly if you pick the right timber because it already has the right thickness and taper before you start. All you need the machete for is to strip the bark and to shave off any rough spots. These weapon shafts are far stronger than dowels purchased from a timber yard because the growth rings are intact, which means that the sapwood and heartwood is intact. Dowels are usually cut from much larger trees, which make them far weaker than complete branches and saplings.
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Old 07-06-2019, 06:15 PM   #29
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I've made spear shafts and staves using nothing but a machete and sandpaper. Saplings and coppiced branches are preferable to large trees. It takes a while to develop a good technique but the job goes much more quickly if you pick the right timber because it already has the right thickness and taper before you start. All you need the machete for is to strip the bark and to shave off any rough spots. These weapon shafts are far stronger than dowels purchased from a timber yard because the growth rings are intact, which means that the sapwood and heartwood is intact. Dowels are usually cut from much larger trees, which make them far weaker than complete branches and saplings.
In addition to that there is material selection which is as much art as science, selecting the right species of tree for the timber, selecting the best individual example available, using the best methods to harvest the timber relative to the desired final product. Seasoning, treating (if required) and preparing the timber also factor in.

In some circumstances it may be that a balanced stick becomes unbalanced as it ages and wears.
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