Phoenix Command & GURPS

[JCurwen3]

Has anyone ever used Phoenix Command (PCCS) with GURPS? Or even Sword's Path: Glory (both from the long defunct Leading Edge Games). A friend of a friend just sold me his collection, andd I thought it might be fun (with the aid of software I could write) to incorporate some of its rules for combat.

Is there a straightforward conversion with tips for how to convert HP and damage and statistics and the like? I'm thinking probably not, but I thought I'd put it out there just in case.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by JCurwen3

Has anyone ever used Phoenix Command (PCCS) with GURPS?

I've considered it, but it would be a fair amount of work. However, PCCS does work on the same general penetration model as GURPS (I actually have Small Arms Spectrum, not PCCS), as I recall I converted 1d GURPS damage to about 10p RID.

[TJP]

Originally Posted by JCurwen3

Is there a straightforward conversion with tips for how to convert HP and damage and statistics and the like?

If memory serves, HP and damage in Phoenix Command scale on a completely different scale and work quite differently than in GURPS. For example, a pistol bullet could do 10 pts. of damage or 10,000 pts. of damage depending on where it hit (with quite detailed hit locations, ranging from glancing arm hits to direct spine or heart hits, IIRC). Also Hit Points weren't deducted from a HP tally, but wounds were checked on a table which would basically split them between non-fatal and fatal wounds, with fatal giving you a set time to receive proper medical aid or perish (or something, it's been awhile).

I seem to recall there being a passage in the rules, saying that Hit Points in Phoenix COmmand should not be interpreted like they are usually done in other RPGs, plus that they are on a wholly separate, non-convertable scale and so on and so forth. Therefore, trying to get a straighforward conversion of HP and damage from PC to GURPS, might be very difficult. This is of course only my opinion, but I'd say, use either GURPS or PC, but not both, i.e. don't try to mate the two systems, it's likely too much of a hassle for little actual gain.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by TJP

If memory serves, HP and damage in Phoenix Command scale on a completely different scale and work quite differently than in GURPS.

The basic mechanic (hidden in massive table lookup) was 'multiply penetration by the round's wounding multiplier and the multiplier for what you penetrate', it's just that the range of wound multipliers was much larger. Also, PCCS had a rather interesting wounding system where you didn't die at an explicit number, you just rolled based on medical aid and wound total for whether and how fast you'd die (if we can get you to an ultra-tech medical facility in the next three seconds, you'll live!).

[Juca]

Well, we have run some simulations using the small arms systems for Phoenix Command and the veredict is that combat is way too much lethal. I see no problem with realistic high chances of incapacitation, but almost any shot, from any gun is an automatic kill.
We wrote a "computer aid" to help us play the dice, but even then, the system is too much complicated to be playable.

[AOTA]

I always thought it would be fun to convert the Living Steel game world to GURPS. I'd pretty much throw out the system which was based on Phoenix Command. Tried to play it straight but the system was a pain to work with.

[Gigermann]

Unfortunately, I don't think either of my gaming groups would be up for it, but I have considered the GURPS/Phoenix hybrid.

I think it's more about getting the "feel" than a direct conversion. First, you use all the realistic options, and make heavy use of Tactical Shooting. You could use the overlays from PC for targeting without modification, probably—translate to GURPS locations when hit. Wounding comes down to a proper "description" more than the numbers; my thinking was to convert the PC wounding tables to GURPS injury levels.

Untested, obviously.

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by Juca

I see no problem with realistic high chances of incapacitation, but almost any shot, from any gun is an automatic kill.

I seem to recall someone complaining that Phoenix Command took it's message "Guns are dangerous, mmkay" far enough that a BB-gun was significantly lethal (and possibly even vs body armour, but that might be my memory blowing it out of proportion).

This isn't the game with the spinning overlays and profiles is it?

[Gigermann]

Originally Posted by Bruno

This isn't the game with the spinning overlays and profiles is it?

Oops. I was thinking of Millenium's End. Why not mix the lot of them? :P

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Juca

Well, we have run some simulations using the small arms systems for Phoenix Command and the veredict is that combat is way too much lethal. I see no problem with realistic high chances of incapacitation, but almost any shot, from any gun is an automatic kill

Yeah, PCCS sometimes mistakes piles of data for accuracy. The main thing I'd want to mine from it is the tables for 'which organ did you hit at what depth'.