Super ST and modifying ST based damage

[PK]

S_F has it essentially right. The answer is indeed (D), "Whatever he pays for." But since there's no way to have an armor divisor apply to part of an attack's dice -- it's an effect applied to the target's DR, not to any of the statistics of your own attack -- it means in practice he has AD(10) for up to whichever attack he's paid for, then no AD at all on stronger ones.

Originally Posted by Kuroshima

It goes without saying that the idea is that his blows have an AD, in all situations. This means that he must pay for his Power Blow Super ST...

Actually, it doesn't go without saying; if something matters, be sure to spell it out when setting up these theoretical examples. Doing so ensures that you'll get clearer, more accurate answers from the fora fauna.

But yes, if you want all of his punches to have AD(10), then you have to pay for it based on his best Thrust damage.

[munin]

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

... But since there's no way to have an armor divisor apply to part of an attack's dice -- it's an effect applied to the target's DR, not to any of the statistics of your own attack ...

A challenge!

Divide the DR in proportion to the rolled damage's proportions, apply the appropriate armor divisor to each DR and reduce each damage portion by the corresponding DR.

For example, DR 12 vs. Innate Attack 6d (Armor Divisor (2), First 2d only, +50%/3 = +17%?): We happen to roll 21 damage, one-third of which has AD(2). Divide the DR into 1/3 (DR 4) and 2/3 (DR 8), apply the armor divisor to the first 1/3 reducing it to 2, subtract that from the first third of the damage (7-2=5), subtract the full DR 8 from the second portion of the damage (14-8=6), for a total of 5+6=11 damage. That's better than we would do with no armor divisor (21-12=9), and worse than we would do with a full armor divisor (21-6=15), so this example checks out.

I can even imagine a "real-world" rationalization for such an effect -- an armor piercing attribute that wears out in the middle of penetrating armor.

It is a bit of math though.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by munin

A challenge!

Divide the DR in proportion to the rolled damage's proportions, apply the appropriate armor divisor to each DR and reduce each damage portion by the corresponding DR.

Nah. Take the number of points spent and figure out what divisor it would be if applied to the entire power, so a (10) would become a (5) on up to 133% damage, (3) on up to 200% damage, (2) on up to 400% damage.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

S_F has it essentially right. The answer is indeed (D), "Whatever he pays for." But since there's no way to have an armor divisor apply to part of an attack's dice -- it's an effect applied to the target's DR, not to any of the statistics of your own attack -- it means in practice he has AD(10) for up to whichever attack he's paid for, then no AD at all on stronger ones.



Actually, it doesn't go without saying; if something matters, be sure to spell it out when setting up these theoretical examples. Doing so ensures that you'll get clearer, more accurate answers from the fora fauna.

But yes, if you want all of his punches to have AD(10), then you have to pay for it based on his best Thrust damage.

It strikes me that it's reasonable to pay for it based on the best Thrust damage he's going to use it with. Thus he could have a brute force punch that does a lot of dice, or a less damaging armor piercing punch.

[Langy]

At these damage levels, it's probably cheaper to use an Imbuement to give him the armor divisor. You could give him a skill of 30 or so with less than a 100 point investment, which should be plenty to make it near-always succeed with zero FP cost.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Langy

At these damage levels, it's probably cheaper to use an Imbuement to give him the armor divisor. You could give him a skill of 30 or so with less than a 100 point investment, which should be plenty to make it near-always succeed with zero FP cost.

Of course that requires the game to have Imbuements.

[the_matrix_walker]

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

S_F has it essentially right. The answer is indeed (D), "Whatever he pays for." But since there's no way to have an armor divisor apply to part of an attack's dice -- it's an effect applied to the target's DR, not to any of the statistics of your own attack -- it means in practice he has AD(10) for up to whichever attack he's paid for, then no AD at all on stronger ones.

And it's right in the description...

"1. Find thrusting damage for the highest ST you can use for unarmed
combat. This is the sum of regular ST, Arm ST, and Striking ST."

So if you can triple your ST, then that tripled value is the "highest ST you can use"

So my first post was way off base.

[Anthony]

As a side point, the way Champions handles this is way more practical -- rather than adding extra cost to your ST, it just reduces the damage added by your ST, so your AP(10) claws would just divide effective ST by 3 when computing damage.