Exotic Governmental/Legal Systems

[Agemegos]

Originally Posted by Anthony

This is usually simplified by just making them unable to reproduce; important positions being filled by eunuchs has historical precedent.

But you need to promote one of the princes or princesses to king…. If you put off neutering them until a sibling is crowned then they may very well get kids before their royal parent's reign ends. I guess you could execute all living children of any prince or princess who becomes a noble other than the king. But this keeps turning more and more into an aristocracy to run away from.

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by ak_aramis

While rare, there are recorded instances of the hymen regrowing; its also not uncommon for it not to rupture during sex, and in exceptionally rare cases, stretching during childbirth..... It's only usually a valid identifier, and even then, one that's easily misread.

I don't think the hymen was what was being referenced. I think the part where a baby actually comes out of her body, making it completely unambiguous if she was the mother (until IVF gets invented anyways), was what was being referenced.

[cptbutton]

Originally Posted by Bruno

I don't think the hymen was what was being referenced. I think the part where a baby actually comes out of her body, making it completely unambiguous if she was the mother (until IVF gets invented anyways), was what was being referenced.

One of the less mentioned downsides of being a queen in the good old days. The official witnesses at the delivery.

[David Johnston2]

A system where the head of state is head of state for life, but the replacements for deceased heads of states are found by defrosting or unpretrifying another of a large stockpile of people from before The Great Catastrophe who are revered for their ancient knowledge

[Irish Wolf]

Originally Posted by Bruno

I don't think the hymen was what was being referenced. I think the part where a baby actually comes out of her body, making it completely unambiguous if she was the mother (until IVF gets invented anyways), was what was being referenced.

That's one of the reasons sometimes invoked to support matriarchy - short of genetic assay it can be difficult to absolutely ascertain who a given heir's father is, but the mother is usually pretty clear...

[ak_aramis]

Originally Posted by Daigoro

Surely that's relevant for virginity, not maternity.

Only in a relatively high-tech society. Without X-rays (or equivalent magic), the other changes are not readily apparent.

[jason taylor]

Originally Posted by ak_aramis

Only in a relatively high-tech society. Without X-rays (or equivalent magic), the other changes are not readily apparent.

But the point I raised was that if the only ones entitled to noble rank were children of the monarch one can prove that most easily by counting it matrilineally. Anyone can say a given prince is a bastard unless they actually had someone watching the mother from conception to birth continually which would be an undertaking the Staasi would consider to fanatical. Saying it came from a different mother is a bit difficult and there are only a few examples (such as the Dimitri's) of someone trying it.

On the other hand, the only way to get that many children is to have a female harem as no women is strong enough to dependably have enough (that gives the Seven "Labors" of Hercules a double meaning). That means there will have to be a king at the center who will naturally be jealous of his own rights in the matter.

[tanksoldier]

. Saying it came from a different mother is a bit difficult and there are only a few examples (such as the Dimitri's) of someone trying

Royal infants could be branded at birth to prevent crib-swapping.

[Daigoro]

Originally Posted by ak_aramis

Only in a relatively high-tech society. Without X-rays (or equivalent magic), the other changes are not readily apparent.

Really not sure how this conversation got here, but to clear it up- if one doubts a noble woman's virginity, one may wish to check her hymen. If one doubts that a noble child was born of a particular noble mother, you check the doctors, nurses, midwives and noble hangers-on as witnesses to the pregnancy and birth. Checking the noble mother's hymen serves no purpose that I can see.

[ericthered]

using genetic Assays to determine an heir would be interesting. You have "Royal Genes", where parts of the monarch's genetics are considered more or less royal. The individual with the most "royal" genetics is the heir. This will usually be a descendant of the current monarch, but order of birth won't matter. The "royalness" of the spouse will matter, as will possibly the gender of the prospective heir, if any genes are on the X or Y chromosome*. Cadet branches of the house probably don't have as much royal genetic material, but they're not completely out of the running.


Also, this unfortunately encourages a certain level of incest. Not that cousin-marrying is particularly uncommon in the annals of royalty.


The determination of the base set of genes is an interesting question. It could be the genome of a single individual (who had better be a nation hero or founder) or an "ideal" genome built from study. Or it could just be the genome of the current monarch.



* If any royal genes are on the Y chromosomes, then the sons of a king have an advantage. If any are on X chromosomes then the daughters of queens have an advantage -- but the X advantage gradually fades.