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Old 09-24-2019, 05:24 PM   #31
Boge
 
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Default Re: I need tips on how to win a fight in fantasy.

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Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
The skill names ("judo", "karate") names have the unfortunate side effect that many people assume they refer to those specific modern styles, and so are completely out of place in fantasy games unless they're doing D&D monks. It's even more confusing when there's more than one "trained scientific" striking (Boxing, Karate) and grappling (Judo, Wrestling) skill available. Probably a place where GURPS could use a bit more Genericity, but simplicity was preferred in this case.

But that leads to a whole different thread, which has of course been done before.

If the GM doesn't allow Judo, does he allow Wresting? An unarmed combat skill is useful for a dedicated warrior at any tech level. And the goal of the unarmed skill is avoiding the sword and shifting the battle to something where the fight is hopefully more even. It doesn't have to be specifically Judo to be useful to that end. Boxing? Brawling?
Wrestling, brawling, and I believe boxing are all allowed. And yes, that is the GMs reasoning behind not allowing Karate and Judo.
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Old 09-24-2019, 05:44 PM   #32
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Default Re: I need tips on how to win a fight in fantasy.

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Originally Posted by Boge View Post
Good suggestions, Varyon. That's what I've been thinking. I'm not sure where you're getting 4 attacks from though as with an All Out Attack Double I can only convert one of those attacks to a Dual Weapon Attack OR Rapid Strike. Can't do both.
All Out Attack (Committed) lets you attack at +4. Weapon Master reduces the penalty for Rapid Strike to -3 per additional attack, which is reduced further to -1 per additional attack with Flurry of Blows (but you pay 1 FP per attack). So, +4 for AoA, and -3 for 3 extra attacks (total FP cost of 4, for a total of 4 attacks), for a net +1. -3 for Vitals means skill 20, so you can afford to give a -2 to defense and still be at skill 16.

If the GM doesn’t allow for multiple rapid strikes, either do AoA (Double) and split one attack into two (paying 2 FP), for 3 Vitals attacks at net -3, -4, and -4, leaving you only enough skill for -1 to defense on each; or do AoA (Committed) and split your one attack into two (paying 2 FP), for 2 Vitals attacks at net +0, +0, leaving you enough skill for -3 to defense on each. I suspect the latter will likely give you the higher hit probability. Assuming Dodge 11 (Speed 7 yields Dodge 10, +1 for Combat Reflexes is Dodge 11), you’re looking at the target rolling against 8 thrice (or 10 thrice, if he burns FP for Feverish Defenses on each), or 6 twice (8 twice). His chance of Dodging all attacks is around 1.7% in the first case (12.5% if burning FP), 0.86% in the second case (2.4%). Note this ignores the chance of crits, which benefits the first case a bit more than the second. It also ignores the chance of you missing any attacks (missing at least once is more likely in the first case than the second).
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Old 09-24-2019, 06:11 PM   #33
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Default Re: I need tips on how to win a fight in fantasy.

Yeah, no extra attacks with Rapid Strike past the one.

Do you think an AOA Double with a Rapid Strike would be better than an AOA Determined with a Rapid Strike?

AOA Double, I get three attacks, success 14, 13, 13. He defends at -8, -8, -8.

AOA Determined, I get two attacks, success 13, 13. He defends at -10, -10.

I'm not sure how far to push the deceptive strikes for the best chances. I can't figure the calculations.
I'm also not sure I want to kill him. I haven't decided on that yet. That might be bad.
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Old 09-24-2019, 06:15 PM   #34
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Default Re: I need tips on how to win a fight in fantasy.

One major consideration here that I don't see mentioned: are either of you wearing any armor?

If you're willing to use technical grappling rules, then grappling with a cutting weapon will inflict some small damage (half your control points), and this halves the penalty to target a hit location, so you could grapple the a limb at -1 instead of -2, the groin at -2 instead of -3, the neck at -3 instead of -5...

Lowering your basic damage isn't likely to help in harming if he has any DR though.

I would try to avoid him being able to parry you, because then he could set up a Beat, which a stronger opponent has an advantage in... is he stronger?

It's weird, you'd think a big weapon would have some kind of benefit in doing a Beat against a small weapon, and small weapons would have trouble doing a Beat against a large weapon, but I can't see that in rules... I guess weight doesn't help like it does in Parrying Heavy Weapons.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Boge View Post
We have a house rule, if you step or move on your turn, you cannot retreat defend.
That would probably make Committed Attack and Move-and-Attack a lot more attractive then, since they already can't retreat.

If you want a less intense version, the 3e compendium simply had you lose a step or movement point from your next turn if you made a retreat. I like the idea of waving that if you didn't use your present turn's step though: allowing for both options gives some more flexibility.

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I was thinking of waiting for him to step in to attack me, then on my turn I could step into close combat and grapple or attack with a knife,
The ideal thing is if you use a Wait triggered by him stepping into an adjacent hex, then you'd step into his hex and attack him before he could actually make the sword attack.

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Originally Posted by Boge View Post
but I was reading that he can still parry with his sword.
Depends on what ruleset. B392 "Defense in Clsoe Combat"says you can only parry using reach C weapons in close combat, so a sword without C wouldn't be able to parry.

MA117 introduced the "Long Weapons in Close Combat" where a reach-1 sword can be used in close combat at -4 to skill, which would mean they could parry with a -2 penalty.

Last edited by Plane; 09-24-2019 at 09:30 PM.
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Old 09-24-2019, 06:44 PM   #35
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Default Re: I need tips on how to win a fight in fantasy.

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Originally Posted by Boge View Post
I doubt he has Parry Missile weapon. So he couldn't parry a thrown knife anyway. The GM might allow it as he's supposed to be that good, but I doubt the GM remembered to give him that skill. So that's an iffy. If he does, he could still parry my arrows from a bow. Unless you're talking about something I'm now aware of.
You can parry thrown weapons at a mere -1 to parry, -2 if its small. That rule is at the bottom of 376, middle column.

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Originally Posted by Plane View Post
If you're willing to use technical grappling rules, then grappling ...
He's said a couple of time that they're really only using the basic rules for combat. No martial arts, let alone technical grappling. Which is a shame, because those rules would go a long way towards giving him the options he needs to win.
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Old 09-24-2019, 06:48 PM   #36
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Default Re: I need tips on how to win a fight in fantasy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boge View Post
Yeah, no extra attacks with Rapid Strike past the one.

Do you think an AOA Double with a Rapid Strike would be better than an AOA Determined with a Rapid Strike?

AOA Double, I get three attacks, success 14, 13, 13. He defends at -8, -8, -8.

AOA Determined, I get two attacks, success 13, 13. He defends at -10, -10.

I'm not sure how far to push the deceptive strikes for the best chances. I can't figure the calculations.
I'm also not sure I want to kill him. I haven't decided on that yet. That might be bad.
I’d lean toward fewer attacks with a higher penalty for Deceptive Attack. For probability, most favor getting skill to 16 or 17 - this minimizes the risk of failure (only on 17) or critical failure (only on 18), and maximizes the chance of a critical success (on a 6 or lower). I’m sometimes inclined to go with 14 or 15, as that’s still a solid hit chance. Lower than that can be a good idea, depending on the target’s actual defense score, but if you don’t actually know the value it’s generally not worth the risk. Attacking the Vitals twice as skill 14 (base skill 22 +4 AoA -1 Rapid Strike -3 Vitals -8 Deceptive) means a -6 to his Dodge (-4 Deceptive, -2 Side/Back). You have an 88.89% chance of non-critical success and 1.85% chance of a critical success with each attack, and with his effective Dodge of 5 he has a 2.77% chance or a non-critical success with each defense, a 1.85% chance of a critical success (total 4.62%). Your chance of actually hitting is (.8889*(1-0.0462)+0.0185)=86.6% for each attack. Your chance of hitting with at least one attack, ignoring a critical defense on the first attack preventing your second attack (due to dropping the sword or similar), is (1-(1-0.866)^2)=98.2%. The chance your foe would get a critical success on the first defense is (0.0185*(1-0.0185))=1.82%; if we assume any critical success here would outright prevent a second attack, that means a 96.4% chance you’ll land at least one hit.

With skill 16, your foe has effective Dodge 6. You have the same 88.89% chance of a non-crit, but 9.25% chance of a crit. Your foe has 7.4% chance of a non-crit, 1.85% of a crit (total 9.25). Your chance of actually hitting is (.8889*(1-0.0925)+0.0925)=89.9% for each attack. Your chance of hitting with at least one attack, ignoring a critical defense on the first attack preventing your second attack (due to dropping the sword or similar), is (1-(1-0.899)^2)=99.0%. The chance your foe would get a critical success on the first defense is (0.0185*(1-0.0925))=1.68%; if we assume any critical success here would outright prevent a second attack, that means a 97.4% chance you’ll land at least one hit - skill 16 is a bit better.

Note all those (1-n)’s above are “chance this doesn’t happen.” Yes, this means the chance of getting at least one hit can be read as “chance you don’t not hit on both attacks.” Probability is weird.
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Old 09-24-2019, 07:08 PM   #37
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Default Re: I need tips on how to win a fight in fantasy.

Forgot to account for the chance you critically fail on your first attack above. This is 1.85% with skill 14, 0.46% with skill 16, for final “at least one hit” probabilities of around 94.6% and 97%, respectively, if we again assume critfail on attack 1 invalidates attack 2.

To parse things more easily, probability of a hit is (chance of normal success)*(chance foe fails defense)+(chance of critical success); crit gets added on at the end because it disallows a defense. Chance of at least one success, ignoring you having a critfail or foe having a crit success on the first attack, is the probability you don’t miss on both attacks. The chance the foe gets a critical success on the first defense is (chance of crit)*(chance you fail to crit); I probably should have considered the chance you had a normal miss (this would reduce the foe’s overall crit chance), but whatever.

If you don’t want to kill your opponent, aim for the arm or leg. There’s a risk of bleeding out or permanent crippling, but it beats a sword to the kidney. At -2 instead of -3, you’re looking at skill 15 vs skill 17; the former is better than skill 14, the latter is identical to skill 16, and I suspect the latter will still have a higher overall success probability.
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Old 09-24-2019, 07:31 PM   #38
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Default Re: I need tips on how to win a fight in fantasy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boge View Post
Yeah, no extra attacks with Rapid Strike past the one.

Do you think an AOA Double with a Rapid Strike would be better than an AOA Determined with a Rapid Strike?

AOA Double, I get three attacks, success 14, 13, 13. He defends at -8, -8, -8.

AOA Determined, I get two attacks, success 13, 13. He defends at -10, -10.

I'm not sure how far to push the deceptive strikes for the best chances. I can't figure the calculations.
I'm also not sure I want to kill him. I haven't decided on that yet. That might be bad.
Unless your GM has eliminated the critical hit on a 6 or less with net skill of 16, you only want to deceptive attack down to that. That's a 10% chance (three times) of "it doesn't matter how high your defense is, I just critted you" which means your odds of getting at least one undefendable strike in are between 25-30%.
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Old 09-24-2019, 09:32 PM   #39
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Default Re: I need tips on how to win a fight in fantasy.

We do allow crits on 6 with effective skill 16+. A 17 is still a critical failure regardless of skill in our Gurps.

Is there a penalty to parry an attack at your non-weapon SIDE?

Varyon, why are you not counting Parry as his defense? His parry is likely 16. His dodge is likely 10 or 11. And I'm assuming he'll have a -4 to defend from the side or back due to his One Eye disadvantage which makes attacks at his side act like attacks from the back which our house rule allows him to defend at -4 assuming he's aware of the attacker.

So a Determined attack at skill 26 deceptively striking -5 (skill 16 effectively) would give him a -9 defense from his side or back. Am I overlooking something?

Last edited by Boge; 09-24-2019 at 09:40 PM.
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Old 09-24-2019, 09:33 PM   #40
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Default Re: I need tips on how to win a fight in fantasy.

Of course, with skill 26, broadsword guy might just try doing a Defensive Feint to lower the effective attacking skill of the knife, and ideally you don't roll to find out just how big that penalty is until after he's already decided how much skill to sacrifice on a Deceptive Attack.
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