The Bladestaff: How to incorporate this into TFT?

[Bill_in_IN]

This link gives a decent description of the subject weapon in question.
https://www.santharia.com//weapons/blade_staff.htm


If this has been discussed before on this forum, please link it.

I have two questions.

1. Does it require Pole Weapons talent, Quarterstaff talent, or both?

2. How would you assign damage to it?

Description. The blade staff consists of two parts: the shaft/staff which stands at 1 1/3 peds to 2 1/3 peds (some prefer to cut them shorter: the length can be adjusted to suit one's personal preference) and similar to a quarterstaff for it is made of hardwood, commonly birch or oak. The blade can vary in size anywhere from 1/3 to 2/3 ped and is mostly made of iron or steel. There have been rare instances reported in history where the blade has been made of mithril as a gift for some great deed. This was most often done by the Kiingerim dwarves but there are few instances where the Kaýr have done this themselves. If one would come upon such a precious Blade Staff today it can be considered as a remarkable artifact.

The Blade Staff is classified as a polearm, much like a spear or halberd. The distinct difference between the Blade Staff and other polearms is the fact that the head/blade is that of a wide short scimitar, being slightly curved but it is a two sided blade unlike most scimitar blades.

While the text above clearly states that it is classified as a Pole arm, the following info muddies the water on that.

Usage. The Blade Staff can be used by anyone capable of wielding a spear, halberd, or quarterstaff. The Blade Staff is an effective weapon with more reach than your average sword giving it an advantage in melee combat. It cannot be thrown as one might throw a spear however, this is because the blade is not symmetrically balanced as the head of a spear is (throwing a Blade Staff is like throwing a halberd, it's not very practical), but is instead used to tear an opponent apart with devastating slashes with the keen blade.

My proposed answers.

1. It depends upon the usage. If one has quarterstaff talent, it can be used as a quarterstaff only. No polearm attack mechanics or bonuses apply but the wielder can choose the blade end or blunt end of the staff in their attack. If one has Pole Weapons talent, it can be used as a pole weapon with only the blade end involved. If one had both talents, it can be used as both.

2. Since the one in the link is described as a scimitar on the blade end and ITL, page 111, says this is equivalent to a broadsword, The easiest approach would be for the blade end to be 2D6 damage and the blunt end be 1D+2 per quarterstaff damage in the Weapons Table (ITL, page 109).

While I believe these to be viable approaches, some discussion around mostly the damage is in order. In order to keep the bladestaff as a ST 11 weapon, the incorporated blade would, instead, need to be a smaller sword such as a shortsword (2D-1) or less. In which case, the damage could be changed to the quarterstaff base of 1D+2 with a point addition per the blade such as a +4 for 1D+6 as an example. These kinds of additions become a bit ridiculous. When you add 6 points, you are in the realm of simply adding another 1D6.

Another way to look at the damage would be to rely a little more on physics. You have a sword on the end of a long balanced staff. You could take the base damage of the sword and add points for the increased leverage and speed of the blade as it is swung. So, at ST 11, a bladestaff with a shortsword would be (2D-1)+3 for a result of 2D+2. Thus, effectively adding 1D of damage to the quarterstaff.

A wielder with Quarterstaff talent could pull their hit by selecting which end to use in the attack.

[larsdangly]

Sounds like a spear. Or, if you want it to play a unique role in the setting, you could declare it to be a ST 12 two handed pole weapon (since there are no regular ones, other than the pike), doing perhaps 1d+2 base damage (i.e., 1 point more than a normal ST 11 two handed spear).

The extraordinary damage scores you are contemplating would make it an extreme super-weapon. Meaning no one in their right mind would choose to fight with anything else. That sort of approach is really bad for a game like TFT, where diversity with parity is a core design concept.

[TippetsTX]

Classic TFT had the naginata (ST 10, 1d+2).

[Shostak]

Originally Posted by TippetsTX

Classic TFT had the naginata (ST 10, 1d+2).

LE does, too, but it classifies a naginata as functionally a spear. See ITL 111.

[hcobb]

Removing the Naginata talent is more than made up for with the addition of Pole Weapons Expertise.

[TippetsTX]

Originally Posted by hcobb

Removing the Naginata talent is more than made up for with the addition of Pole Weapons Expertise.

I agree, NAGINATA never made much sense as a stand-alone talent.

[Bill_in_IN]

Originally Posted by larsdangly

Sounds like a spear. Or, if you want it to play a unique role in the setting, you could declare it to be a ST 12 two handed pole weapon (since there are no regular ones, other than the pike), doing perhaps 1d+2 base damage (i.e., 1 point more than a normal ST 11 two handed spear).

The extraordinary damage scores you are contemplating would make it an extreme super-weapon. Meaning no one in their right mind would choose to fight with anything else. That sort of approach is really bad for a game like TFT, where diversity with parity is a core design concept.

No. It's a blade staff. A spear is a pole with a point on it. This has a sword blade on the end of a quarter staff. It's not the same. It would also require pole weapons and quarterstaff talentes to fully use all of its capabilities. I also accounted for keeping it as ST 11 weapon by downgrading the blade from a broadsword to a short sword.

Damage would need to have similarities to the type of blade on it with some advantages based upon physics. While the damage is up for discussion, what is presented doesn't make it a super weapon to which all players will flock. It squeezes some additional points out of current weaponry. That is what innovative weapon designs are supposed to do provided that characters have the ability to wield them.

I was searching the web for quarterstaff info and the bladestaff in the link that I posted came up. I found it interesting. It described it well but didn't go into damage either than it being a very lethal weapon. The same link mentioned one with blades at both ends. It didn't even go there because I didn't want to see any heads explode.

[Bill_in_IN]

Originally Posted by hcobb

Removing the Naginata talent is more than made up for with the addition of Pole Weapons Expertise.

Weapons expertise existed in the original TFT. I will check but I think that it was 3 IQ points for each weapon type.

[Bill_in_IN]

Originally Posted by Shostak

LE does, too, but it classifies a naginata as functionally a spear. See ITL 111.

So, per the description provided in the link. There is ambiguity with respect to the bladestaff being strictly a pole weapon or also a type of quarterstaff. It's clearly both depending upon it's use.

[TippetsTX]

So TFT doesn't support the level of nuance in combat physics that I think you are looking for. Using RAW, if the weapon has a long shaft and a blade of pretty much any length on one end (or both) it should be covered by the POLE ARMS talent.

And BTW, I whole-heartedly support the addition of more/better polearms to the game.