Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-01-2018, 08:24 PM   #1
lachimba
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Sydney
Default Things players say to me

Me:

Where do you want to kick him

Player: It says here that skull is -7 to hit.
We do tai kwan do and its easier to hit the head than the body.

Me: yeah and I do Muay Thai and Im pretty sure the GURPS MA authors know martial arts. Are you really sure that you arent just practicing hitting the head over and over again in a sporting environment and that means you think that its easier but in real life people tend to raise their hands to block their head. Do you also think that maybe the head is a smaller target than the large torso and generally people trying to hit it with projectiles and weapons have at least some penalty.

Player: no the head is easier to hit.


Me: ....
lachimba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2018, 09:35 PM   #2
mr beer
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Default Re: Things players say to me

Generally I would say something like: "OK well thank you for your feedback, however I'm leaving this rule as written".

EDIT

In game I don't encourage a lot of back and forth, so essentially I shut it down by making a decision and saying we can discuss after the session for future games. Nothing worse than having a combat stop while we get into 30 minute debate about volumetric fireballs or other esoteric technicalities.

EDIT2

Also, Skull isn't the whole head anyway.

Last edited by mr beer; 10-02-2018 at 12:37 AM.
mr beer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2018, 01:15 AM   #3
Hide
 
Hide's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Default Re: Things players say to me

Quote:
Originally Posted by lachimba View Post
Me:

Where do you want to kick him

Player: It says here that skull is -7 to hit.
We do tai kwan do and its easier to hit the head than the body.

Me: yeah and I do Muay Thai and Im pretty sure the GURPS MA authors know martial arts. Are you really sure that you arent just practicing hitting the head over and over again in a sporting environment and that means you think that its easier but in real life people tend to raise their hands to block their head. Do you also think that maybe the head is a smaller target than the large torso and generally people trying to hit it with projectiles and weapons have at least some penalty.

Player: no the head is easier to hit.


Me: ....
First, Tae Kwon Do in the dojo/tournament is different than Tae Kwon Do in a real fight. An opponent is not necessarily committed to the rules of Tae Kwon Do (in which you usually avoid using your hands, for the sake of making points, for starters).

On the other hand, you could also say that in Tae Kwon Do, they teach you techniques to buy off the penalty to strike the head (That's on the martial arts book).

- Hide
Hide is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2018, 02:42 AM   #4
lachimba
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Sydney
Default Re: Things players say to me

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr beer View Post
Generally I would say something like: "OK well thank you for your feedback, however I'm leaving this rule as written".
And they were fine with that when I said something similar and perfectly polite. They just gave me the look of "you don't know what you are talking about... and your system isn't realistic"
Its more the not convincing them that bothers me and they no doubt went back to a system that deals with hit locations and close combat in a less realistic, more abstracted way than GURPS.

As it is it was a convention game and I was demoing- I think the real lesson is I am going to limit the kind of demos I run at cons and assess the worth of me demoing at a con. Its a lot of work and I'm really only doing it to promote GURPS. Its not rewarding when people don't seem very interested.
lachimba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2018, 03:37 AM   #5
Tenex
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default Re: Things players say to me

Don't give up promoting something you like.

RPGs have attracted people with little real world experience for over 40 years. It's just the nature of the beast.
Tenex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2018, 03:58 AM   #6
tbone
 
tbone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default Re: Things players say to me

Quote:
Originally Posted by lachimba View Post
And they were fine with that when I said something similar and perfectly polite. They just gave me the look of "you don't know what you are talking about... and your system isn't realistic"
I'd think it'd be worthwhile to point out to these players (and maybe you did point out) that it's perfectly possible to kick heads in GURPS. For starters, they only need to deal with a -5 penalty for the head, not -7. Add to that +4 for AoA, or +4 for Telegraphic Attack, or +8 for both, and heads will get kicked (especially if the fighters have a little skill, too). There are even Feints and Deceptive Attacks (and the use of Evaluate instead of Telegraphic Attack) to deal with pesky active defenses; fancy tweaks like Hit Location and Trademark Move to further boost committed practitioners' THH (To Hit Head); and probably more potential bonuses that I'm forgetting.

In short, GURPS seems a very head kick-friendly game to me...

(Then again, if the gist of the players' complaint is "Sure, it's easy enough to kick a head with all those factors, but that should be easier than kicking the body... well, that just sounds wacky to me. But to repeat from the above, with Hit Location and Trademark Move, GURPS makes it almost as easy for a skilled practitioner to kick a head as to kick a body. What other RPG with meaningful hit locations can offer that?)
__________________
T. Bone
GURPS stuff and more at the Games Diner:
http://www.gamesdiner.com
Twitter: @Gamesdiner
(Latest goods on the site: PDF resource for GURPS takes shape: Robert E. Howard’s “Hyborian Age”. A user-contributed resource on the places, people, and creatures of the Conan world. Come and get it!)
tbone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2018, 04:03 AM   #7
mr beer
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Default Re: Things players say to me

Quote:
Originally Posted by lachimba View Post
And they were fine with that when I said something similar and perfectly polite. They just gave me the look of "you don't know what you are talking about... and your system isn't realistic"
Its more the not convincing them that bothers me and they no doubt went back to a system that deals with hit locations and close combat in a less realistic, more abstracted way than GURPS.
Meh, not much you can do there. It seems intuitively obvious to me that a small target is header to hit and there are ways you can model a fighting style that prioritises head-blows in GURPS. So I'm happy with it. But people will pick some as aspect of a rules system and just disagree that its realistic with more or less justification.
mr beer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2018, 04:27 AM   #8
Michele
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Udine, Italy
Default Re: Things players say to me

Apart from everything else, and assuming the discussion does not take place during the gaming (which is rightly a no-no), what I see is that you provided explanations, and they did not, save "with this martial art it's easier".

Now, I know nothing about martial arts in real life, and you don't practice Tae Kwon Do, but even so, if they are unable to explain in simple terms, even to ignorant people, what are the actual factors that make hitting the head easier, then their argument sounds iffy to me.
__________________
Michele Armellini
GURPS Locations: St. George's Cathedral
Michele is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2018, 05:12 AM   #9
lachimba
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Sydney
Default Re: Things players say to me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenex View Post
Don't give up promoting something you like.
I don't think promoting GURPS to people who aren't really interested is something I like.

As it is:

I probably won't try to GM at that con again. The people were perfectly welcoming and friendly I just think they have systems they like and I'd prefer to go as a player (and play another system that we might both like) rather than a GM (who GM's a system that they don't like).
lachimba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2018, 06:39 AM   #10
Anaraxes
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Default Re: Things players say to me

"Easier to kick the head because that's the only target I spent all my time practicing to kick" is not the same thing as "easier to kick the head because smaller, more distant targets are inherently easier to hit than the body or the knee".

I'm hardly a TKD expert and probably couldn't kick above my waist if I had to. But it sounds like putting points into a favorite Technique to me.

You also might avoid body kicks because they're less effective, or because it's much easier for the target to trap your leg that way. That might make the head a preferable target -- but again, that would be choosing the head because it's smarter tactically, which is also not the same thing as "easier to hit".

GURPS die rolls aren't designed to lead unknowing novices into choosing the smartest, most effective option because that one has the fewest penalties. You could design a game that way -- Feng Shui had at least a few nods to making action movie silliness the more effective smart choice, mechanically speaking, to encourage players to choose that sort of behavior. But that's not GURPS' normal style.
Anaraxes is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
head, martial arts, skull

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:44 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.