The Bermuda Depths....

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by Bruno

The key thing is in what shape did they arrive, and if they ever survived the journey back (and in what shape).

Having a ship get driven across the North Atlantic all the way to Newfoundland (the closest point if you're coming from northern Europe) is probably possible, but it's not very plausible that it survives that kind of storm intact, and it's likely to have been in October or November - which means arriving/wrecking on the shores of Canada unexpectedly, with no supplies for a long term expedition, probably with a mostly-wrecked ship and less crew than you started with... just in time for winter.

Landing on Newfoundland in particular would be harsh because finding good wood to repair your ship would be tricky. And the storms are horrible.

That would make for an interesting "what if?" book if not game. The lone survivor of a pre-Columbian shipwreck trying to survive among the natives.

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by Johnny1A.2

I can't prove it, but it's my strong sneaking hunch.

I don't even think it's even very controversial anymore that there were European fishermen working the Grand Banks for several decades before 1492 and landing on the "phantom" island of Bacalao there. Columbus himself apparently even claimed to have landed on an island "beyond Thule" in 1477.

The Atlantic is not incredibly wide - people must have been blown across it fast enough to survive, in both directions, multiple times since the invention of boats. But "foreigner blown in from he has no idea where" isn't likely to have much impact. Even if he wanted to try to go home, he doesn't really know where it is, and talking anybody into a voyage that nearly killed him in reverse isn't going to be easy.

[Johnny1A.2]

Originally Posted by malloyd

I don't even think it's even very controversial anymore that there were European fishermen working the Grand Banks for several decades before 1492 and landing on the "phantom" island of Bacalao there. Columbus himself apparently even claimed to have landed on an island "beyond Thule" in 1477.

The Atlantic is not incredibly wide - people must have been blown across it fast enough to survive, in both directions, multiple times since the invention of boats. But "foreigner blown in from he has no idea where" isn't likely to have much impact. Even if he wanted to try to go home, he doesn't really know where it is, and talking anybody into a voyage that nearly killed him in reverse isn't going to be easy.

Exactly. And even if he does make it home, what results? The Atlantic is not anything like as wide as the Pacific, but it's wide enough, and all he's brought home is knowledge that there are lands out there _somewhere_. Not necessarily a strong motive to try to go back, if there aren't pressing other reasons.

Those social, religious, economic, etc. reasons came into alignment around the late 15C. Before that, the motivation would not necessarily be there even if somebody brought back news of the existence of those far-off lands.

[jason taylor]

Originally Posted by Johnny1A.2

I'm not 100% sure how 'alternate' that would be, actually. I harbor the strong suspicion that European ships probably reached the Americas several times before and between Ericson and Columbus, by accident or other reasons. It was just that the conditions were never right for anything to come of it.

I can't prove it, but it's my strong sneaking hunch.

Basque fishers stopping to plug leaks and repair nets would have been interested in fish, not in political or trade contacts; or in cartography. There is no reason they should have reported it to anyone except their owner and no reason for him to report it to anyone, as they would have considered it routine navigational annoyance.

[dcarson]

Originally Posted by jason taylor

Basque fishers stopping to plug leaks and repair nets would have been interested in fish, not in political or trade contacts; or in cartography. There is no reason they should have reported it to anyone except their owner and no reason for him to report it to anyone, as they would have considered it routine navigational annoyance.

And keeping a excellent fishing ground that has land near by that you can get fresh water, patch the boat etc. secret is good business.