Killing Superman [Powers]

[AlexanderHowl]

One of the odd things about GURPS is that it is actually fairly easy to kill Superman. With IQ 12 [40], Will 20 [40], Cosmic 4 [60], and Neutralize (Cosmic, +300%; Malediction 3, +200%; No Signature, +20%; Power Theft, +200%; Ranged, +40%; Reliable, +10, +50%; Selectivity, +10%) [460], you can actually take his powers from him without difficulty and then utterly kill him with them during the next moment (because you are temporarily Superman). While you would probably want a 1,000 CP character to support such a massive ability, you could use it against any superhuman with an associated source (even Cosmic). Paradoxically, Batman would likely still win.

So, how would you use a super with the ability to kill Superman (or any other insanely powerful super)? Would you have them as a secret anti-super weapon? A hero? A villain?

[aesir23]

As it happens, I'm designing just such a character for my GURPS DCU thread.

That character is Parasite. He has the ability to drain people's powers, including on several occassions, Superman's. And yes he could kill Superman (although he usually wouldn't--because he wants to continue to drain Superman regularly to keep his powers.) He's a lot more limited than the design you have here--it's a contact agent and it's a bit more resistable.

It's certainly not the only way to kill Superman, either. There's Kryptonite, obviously, "the light of a red sun" can also rob him of his powers, and he's as vulnerable as any other man to magic (if Zatana went evil, she could kill him with a word: "eid"). In fact, most of Superman's enemies are a potentially mortal threat to him under the right circumstances--it would be pretty boring if they weren't!

As for your build--it's a bit too min-maxed for my tastes. If I were to make him a villain, I'd make his power a bit easier to detect and resist, if only for the drama. As a hero, he'd be okay, although I'd ask a player who came to me with such a design to build in more limitations and weaknesses.

Neutralize with Power Theft is probably a bit broken anyway. As a house rule, I might make someone take Neutralize linked with Cosmic Modular Abilities to "steal powers" so that there'd be a hard limit on how many points worth of powers they could steal.

[Plane]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

One of the odd things about GURPS is that it is actually fairly easy to kill Superman. With IQ 12 [40], Will 20 [40], Cosmic 4 [60], and Neutralize (Cosmic, +300%; Malediction 3, +200%; No Signature, +20%; Power Theft, +200%; Ranged, +40%; Reliable, +10, +50%; Selectivity, +10%) [460], you can actually take his powers from him without difficulty and then utterly kill him with them during the next moment (because you are temporarily Superman). While you would probably want a 1,000 CP character to support such a massive ability, you could use it against any superhuman with an associated source (even Cosmic). Paradoxically, Batman would likely still win.

So, how would you use a super with the ability to kill Superman (or any other insanely powerful super)? Would you have them as a secret anti-super weapon? A hero? A villain?

Firstly, I don't think Neutralize can be used against wild advantages that lack power modifiers, which might possibly cover alien species like Superman. Of course he might also have the Super-10% modifier, in which case you could just use Neutralize (Super) without any need for a cosmic enhancement.

The +300% which allows you to target multiple power sources I still think only targets ones which are actually targetable, meaning those whose pricing take into account the -5% for powered countermeasures (P20, eg magic and psi) while those lacking it fall into the "No Countermeasures" category where stuff like Neutralize doesn't exist for it (P20, eg Chi and Cosmic)

P26 doesn't price power countermeasures into bio/divine either, nor elementla on P27, though both bio/elemental have mundane countermeasures.

P27 "Moral" on the other hand, does explicitly have anti-powers. Those are suggested under the Order/Chaos and Good/Evil pairings.

P28 "Nature" and "Spirit" do not.

Since the only known sources whose power modifiers are priced to account for counter-measures are Magic/Psi/Super/Moral I would think the +300% just lets you switch between those for.

Which conveniently enough, the enhancement quadruples the price, as if you bought it 4 times, so that works out perfectly.

If the ability to neutralize the other sources (Chi/Cosmic/Biological/Elemental/Nature/Spirit) existed then they would be worth more, it would be worked into their price discount, since that would be a disadvantage they have relative to the wild advantage which neutralize can't target.

[Bengt]

Super heroes are kept alive by plot armour and nothing else, the genre is already rife with power drainers and Achilles heels. So if you want to replicate the type of comics that feature Superman with GURPS you need the right campaign flags and a lot of GM oversight over the power builds available.

[aesir23]

Originally Posted by Plane

Firstly, I don't think Neutralize can be used against wild advantages that lack power modifiers, which might possibly cover alien species like Superman. Of course he might also have the Super-10% modifier, in which case you could just use Neutralize (Super) without any need for a cosmic enhancement.

The +300% which allows you to target multiple power sources I still think only targets ones which are actually targetable, meaning those whose pricing take into account the -5% for powered countermeasures (P20, eg magic and psi) while those lacking it fall into the "No Countermeasures" category where stuff like Neutralize doesn't exist for it (P20, eg Chi and Cosmic)

P26 doesn't price power countermeasures into bio/divine either, nor elementla on P27, though both bio/elemental have mundane countermeasures.

P27 "Moral" on the other hand, does explicitly have anti-powers. Those are suggested under the Order/Chaos and Good/Evil pairings.

P28 "Nature" and "Spirit" do not.

Since the only known sources whose power modifiers are priced to account for counter-measures are Magic/Psi/Super/Moral I would think the +300% just lets you switch between those for.

Which conveniently enough, the enhancement quadruples the price, as if you bought it 4 times, so that works out perfectly.

If the ability to neutralize the other sources (Chi/Cosmic/Biological/Elemental/Nature/Spirit) existed then they would be worth more, it would be worked into their price discount, since that would be a disadvantage they have relative to the wild advantage which neutralize can't target.

It's pretty clear that Superman's powers do have countermeasures (Red Sunlight, Types of Kryptonite, etc...) and that they're not the same countermeasures as the other Supers in his setting.

So it does make sense to buy Cosmic +300 if you want to use Neutralize on Superman and other heroes in the DCU.

[Plane]

Originally Posted by aesir23

It's pretty clear that Superman's powers do have countermeasures (Red Sunlight, Types of Kryptonite, etc...) and that they're not the same countermeasures as the other Supers in his setting.

So it does make sense to buy Cosmic +300 if you want to use Neutralize on Superman and other heroes in the DCU.

His countermeasures could represent a custom power modifier, just like 'metahuman' (or whatever you classify other supers as) might also be a custom modifier.

I agree that so long as Supes and Metas both have pricing for countermeasures that each would have their own version of neutralize, and you could also design a single-power neutralize for +300% that affects both.

Of course... it could just be cheaper to buy both neutralizes as alternative abilities, but then you would have trouble dealing with mixed groups simultnaouesly.

[aesir23]

Originally Posted by Plane

Of course... it could just be cheaper to buy both neutralizes as alternative abilities, but then you would have trouble dealing with mixed groups simultnaouesly.

This is a good point. I'll keep it in mind as I build my version of the Parasite.

[AlexanderHowl]

Cosmic (+300%) allows you to neutralize any source, regardless of if it normally has countermeasures or not, it just has to have a source modifier. For example, you could neutralize Antisuper (+0%), Chi (-10%), Cosmic (+50%), or Mechanical (-10%) abilities as well as Magic (-10%), Psionic (-10%), or Super (-10%). It is why the Cosmic is +300%, because it allows normally untargetable abilities to be targeted.

[Anders]

+300% Cosmic versions also very much need the GM's permission. So there's that as well. But Superman needs something to challenge him.

[Donny Brook]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

One of the odd things about GURPS is that it is actually fairly easy to kill Superman. With IQ 12 [40], Will 20 [40], Cosmic 4 [60], and Neutralize (Cosmic, +300%; Malediction 3, +200%; No Signature, +20%; Power Theft, +200%; Ranged, +40%; Reliable, +10, +50%; Selectivity, +10%) [460], you can actually take his powers from him without difficulty and then utterly kill him with them during the next moment (because you are temporarily Superman).

Before launching this evil plan, Lex should research carefully to be sure Supes doesn't have Cosmic 5.