Ogre Drop Off - Page 3

andrewbeasley · 02-04-2021, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Misplaced Buckeye

...

Perhaps it's time for a second overhaul of the game. Maybe call it "ODE: Last War" and concentrate scenarios on less Ogre Smash and more unit finess. I've seen many variants for the infantry and support weapons that would turn this into a Squad level easily. I'm not saying forget the Ogre just remember that it was originally a weapon of last resort when all else failed because it cost so much to field one.

Comments?

Interesting thought, I always enjoyed the smaller unit battles (i.e. GEV) and stories rather than the big guys slugging it out. Maybe it's because a tank crew, infantry trooper etc are more relatable than a machine?

RogerBW · 02-05-2021, 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewbeasley

Interesting thought, I always enjoyed the smaller unit battles (i.e. GEV) and stories rather than the big guys slugging it out. Maybe it's because a tank crew, infantry trooper etc are more relatable than a machine?

Biochauvinist. Your attitude has been noted.

More seriously, I'm inclined to agree – while the original one-vs-many scenario is a masterpiece, I enjoy fights with more small units more than fights with fewer big ones.

dwalend · 02-05-2021, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RogerBW

I enjoy fights with more small units more than fights with fewer big ones.

I like that there are a lot more tiny tactical decisions that make a difference.

With fewer big units - the "bring the biggest Ogre you can" tactic often dominates.

Misplaced Buckeye · 02-05-2021, 08:41 AM

I've been working on a post Nihon invasion scenario since last year with the Combine trying to dislodge the Nihon force with an amphibous invasion including off shore bombardment. Lots of GEV PC action as well as Missile GEV and an assortment of HW, INF, LAD, MAR, and other Infantry types with artillery support. Added the fact that the Nihon got captured Laser Turrets working made the amphib part interesting. Not a single Ogre but it was fun. Used a neoprene map with map mods from the ODE. This just proves that ODE can be fun without the Big and Uglies around.

sparky00 · 02-09-2021, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Misplaced Buckeye

I've been working on a post Nihon invasion scenario since last year with the Combine trying to dislodge the Nihon force with an amphibous invasion including off shore bombardment. Lots of GEV PC action as well as Missile GEV and an assortment of HW, INF, LAD, MAR, and other Infantry types with artillery support. Added the fact that the Nihon got captured Laser Turrets working made the amphib part interesting. Not a single Ogre but it was fun. Used a neoprene map with map mods from the ODE. This just proves that ODE can be fun without the Big and Uglies around.

That scenario sounds awesome! I'd love to try it some day. The Ogre releases of recent years (ODE onward) have given us a really huge range of options. I believe we have barely scratched to surface of this potential.

cephalopagus · 02-09-2021, 05:43 AM

OK I've seen a lot of great responses and insights. My question is what is Warhammer 40K doing that SJG is not? Maybe some of us don't want to see Ogre go that way and some of us might. Let's face it W40K is one of the most popular games right now, there's a Munchkin version of it! Is there an Ogre Munchkin? I believe that if something isn't promoted it becomes irrelevant. But what the hell do I know.

Misplaced Buckeye · 02-09-2021, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cephalopagus

OK I've seen a lot of great responses and insights. My question is what is Warhammer 40K doing that SJG is not? Maybe some of us don't want to see Ogre go that way and some of us might. Let's face it W40K is one of the most popular games right now, there's a Munchkin version of it! Is there an Ogre Munchkin? I believe that if something isn't promoted it becomes irrelevant. But what the hell do I know.

One thing is that Warhammer is more "squad oriented" with enhanced non mechs involved in most conflict. More akin to Battlesuit( another waif that needs attention according to many). Consider how many games like Ogre/GEV didn't continue like HoverTank, GravArmour and others. Also Warhammer was primarily Miniatures and that's a niche unto it self. Not a painter myself and always been more of a hex and chit wargamer moreover but the 3D cardboard units definitely worked for me. Sometimes I wish they had gone that route to create the rest of the ODE. Yes you couldn't paint them but you could reskin them for the INF and such.

selenite · 02-09-2021, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cephalopagus

My question is what is Warhammer 40K doing that SJG is not?

Warhammer 40K has lots of emotional resonance. Righteous Space Marines, raging orcs, sinister whats-their-names. There's dramatic visuals, from skulls to gothic cathedral mechs. Lots of stuff for the reptile brain to feed on.

Ogre/GEV is a sensible projection of what future combat may be like, with two primary factions neither of which have much appeal to make someone commit to them. The appeal is intellectual. Work out the tactics, calculate the odds, respond to the enemy's plan.

Emotions are much more effective at making people open their wallets.

RogerBW · 02-09-2021, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by selenite

Warhammer 40K has lots of emotional resonance. Righteous Space Marines, raging orcs, sinister whats-their-names. There's dramatic visuals, from skulls to gothic cathedral mechs. Lots of stuff for the reptile brain to feed on.

Also as I understand it a constant treadmilll of new stuff to buy. New army books, new rules, and always new minis to buy and paint. Sure, you could agree with a bunch of friends to stick with a particular version, but that's not what most players are doing.

Zimzerveran · 02-10-2021, 07:49 AM

I'll just chime in here briefly to throw my support behind the non-ogre units in Ogre/GEV. While I do like the Ogres, it's the GEVs and infantry and tanks and all those smaller units which make the game for me. Rather than barreling towards the enemy with an Ogre, I think it's more fun to maneuver your troops and have smaller firefights while trying to complete scenario objectives.

Another thing for me personally is that with ODE + 6E + Battlefields, I have just about everything I need to play whatever kind of scenario I want. Would I buy, say, re-skinned counters for a different faction? Maybe. But I'd want some fluff and fiction for it. Something to make be buy in. As mentioned above, the factions in Ogre/GEV are basically all the same, with little reason for emotional investment in them. I understand that, given the game's roots as a hex-and-counter beer-and-pretzel offering.

02-05-2021, 08:41 AM	#24
Misplaced Buckeye Join Date: May 2015	Re: Ogre Drop Off I've been working on a post Nihon invasion scenario since last year with the Combine trying to dislodge the Nihon force with an amphibous invasion including off shore bombardment. Lots of GEV PC action as well as Missile GEV and an assortment of HW, INF, LAD, MAR, and other Infantry types with artillery support. Added the fact that the Nihon got captured Laser Turrets working made the amphib part interesting. Not a single Ogre but it was fun. Used a neoprene map with map mods from the ODE. This just proves that ODE can be fun without the Big and Uglies around.

02-09-2021, 05:43 AM	#26
cephalopagus Join Date: Feb 2018	Re: Ogre Drop Off OK I've seen a lot of great responses and insights. My question is what is Warhammer 40K doing that SJG is not? Maybe some of us don't want to see Ogre go that way and some of us might. Let's face it W40K is one of the most popular games right now, there's a Munchkin version of it! Is there an Ogre Munchkin? I believe that if something isn't promoted it becomes irrelevant. But what the hell do I know.

02-10-2021, 07:49 AM	#30
Zimzerveran Join Date: May 2020 Location: Maine, USA	Re: Ogre Drop Off I'll just chime in here briefly to throw my support behind the non-ogre units in Ogre/GEV. While I do like the Ogres, it's the GEVs and infantry and tanks and all those smaller units which make the game for me. Rather than barreling towards the enemy with an Ogre, I think it's more fun to maneuver your troops and have smaller firefights while trying to complete scenario objectives. Another thing for me personally is that with ODE + 6E + Battlefields, I have just about everything I need to play whatever kind of scenario I want. Would I buy, say, re-skinned counters for a different faction? Maybe. But I'd want some fluff and fiction for it. Something to make be buy in. As mentioned above, the factions in Ogre/GEV are basically all the same, with little reason for emotional investment in them. I understand that, given the game's roots as a hex-and-counter beer-and-pretzel offering.