Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > The Fantasy Trip

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-12-2020, 08:06 AM   #1
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Illusions as scouts?

I was wondering how people interpret the rules governing the use of illusions as scouts. One reading of the text suggests that the creator of an illusion can see through its eyes (and by extension perhaps perceive other things through the illusions other normal senses), suggesting I could create the illusion of a mouse and send it into a room to see what is there. But the language on this subject strikes me as vague so I was wondering how others read it. The only passage I could find that seems to speak directly to this is on Legacy Edition p. 139:

"...a figure who possesses Literacy,[list of other talents] can use that talent through the eyes of any illusion that he [sic] creates"
larsdangly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2020, 08:24 AM   #2
hcobb
 
hcobb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Pacheco, California
Default Re: Illusions as scouts?

See ITL 139 for limitations on illusions.

Take an illusion of an Shadowight cast by an average IQ 17 starting wizard with Alertness walking through complete darkness.

The wizard only has a 50% chance of spotting a six die hidden door in total darkness, and the illusion has no means to open the door or spring any traps on the door. This assumes that the Shadowight is walking only three hexes per turn and so will only scout out a dozen megahexes before requiring four more points of ST to continue it.

Compare with the Summon Scout bat that has a full move of 20 and one point of ST to pull tripwires or such. "I'm using the pings to listen for hollows in the walls." (The illusion bat would have no actual physical sound pings and so find nothing that the wizard didn't already know about.)
__________________
-HJC

Last edited by hcobb; 07-12-2020 at 08:29 AM.
hcobb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2020, 08:56 AM   #3
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Re: Illusions as scouts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
See ITL 139 for limitations on illusions.

Take an illusion of an Shadowight cast by an average IQ 17 starting wizard with Alertness walking through complete darkness.

The wizard only has a 50% chance of spotting a six die hidden door in total darkness, and the illusion has no means to open the door or spring any traps on the door. This assumes that the Shadowight is walking only three hexes per turn and so will only scout out a dozen megahexes before requiring four more points of ST to continue it.

Compare with the Summon Scout bat that has a full move of 20 and one point of ST to pull tripwires or such. "I'm using the pings to listen for hollows in the walls." (The illusion bat would have no actual physical sound pings and so find nothing that the wizard didn't already know about.)
Yep -- my default scout was an image of a mosquito (cheaper than an illusion) until Summon Scout came out.
zot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2020, 09:16 AM   #4
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: Illusions as scouts?

Interesting, but I can't tell from this aside whether or not you both agree with the fundamental premise that a wizard can create an illusion and then send it to and fro to observe his or her surroundings. In particular, the comment about the bat illusion not actually relaying information gathered by sonar suggests you don't think an illusion can show you something you haven't seen.
larsdangly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2020, 10:30 AM   #5
warhorse11h
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default Re: Illusions as scouts?

For what its worth, I don't think that the illusion would be able to see anything you weren't already aware of. Unless there are others in the room that the illusion can interact with. Illusions are partially fed by those who see them and don't disbelieve them. So, the illusion might be able to sense things they are aware of.

Last edited by warhorse11h; 07-12-2020 at 11:06 AM.
warhorse11h is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2020, 10:40 AM   #6
hcobb
 
hcobb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Pacheco, California
Default Re: Illusions as scouts?

My take on the illusion bat is that it can hear ambient noises and make illusion noises that non-mindless critters can hear and so it will get illusion echos off of these figures.

Therefore if your only light source is an illusion torch then you see other figures as they see themselves, without shapeshifts or glamors.
__________________
-HJC
hcobb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2020, 11:26 AM   #7
Terquem
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Idaho Falls
Default Re: Illusions as scouts?

In my own campaign setting, and only in my own house rules environment, I will limit Illusions, Images and Summoned creatures to only work as long as the source of the spell (wizard or magic item) has a Line of Sight to the created magic
Terquem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2020, 12:05 PM   #8
TippetsTX
 
TippetsTX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: North Texas
Default Re: Illusions as scouts?

This particular aspect of Images and Illusions never made sense to me so I don't use it.
__________________
“No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style.” -Vladimir Taltos
TippetsTX is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2020, 02:38 PM   #9
RobW
 
RobW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Default Re: Illusions as scouts?

I think this ambiguity is best addressed by asking a meta-level question.

Do you want illusions in your campaign to:
(A) exist solely in the minds of the wizard and spell targets, or
(B) to have some physical reality as well

If (A) then illusions can't be scouts, at least in any full sense
If (B) then you have further questions to answer relating to the limits of that physical nature

I go with (A), illusions are purely mental/psychological creations. That solves the basic scout question but quickly raises other interesting issues.
RobW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2020, 12:50 AM   #10
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: Illusions as scouts?

Probably RAW, yeah you can use illusions as scouts.

However, I have it that you can't really learn things you didn't already know from an illusion unless someone else notices your illusion, in which case you could perceive things that those people perceive.

So the illusion of a mosquito would need to be noticed by someone, and then you could see things that that person knew about and that the mosquito could see.

I like this limitation because
1) It means my campaigns are less hellish like you could be observed at any time by some illusion you haven't even noticed.
2) Illusions are already massively useful/powerful without also being super-good scouting spells.
3) I don't want illusion allowing easy bird's eye views and removing the need for exploration and climbing and so on from many situations.
4) It makes illusion scouting situations more interesting to me, because it means you actually need to get the attention of someone you want to spy on, which is an interesting trade-off that can lead to interesting situations.
5) It makes sense to me in a way I like.
Skarg is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:27 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.