Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > Dungeon Fantasy Roleplaying Game

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-05-2019, 04:03 PM   #51
DouglasCole
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
 
DouglasCole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Burnsville, MN
Default Re: Nordlond Sagas: Three new books for the DFRPG

Quote:
Originally Posted by b-dog View Post
Wouldn't It just be easier to have a lot of different gods in the game world? Odin and Zeus different gods and maybe if the Norse and Greek people are on friendly terms then their clerics can get along but if they are at war then Odin and Zeus are also fighting too so the clerics will be hostile.
Go ahead and do this in your own game. I have no plans to do it in Nordlond, which has a specific cosmology in mind that guides the writing and how things are described.
__________________
Gaming Ballistic, LLC
DouglasCole is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2019, 07:00 PM   #52
b-dog
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Default Re: Nordlond Sagas: Three new books for the DFRPG

Quote:
Originally Posted by DouglasCole View Post
Go ahead and do this in your own game. I have no plans to do it in Nordlond, which has a specific cosmology in mind that guides the writing and how things are described.
Ok. Are there any plans to include the abrahamic religions?
b-dog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2019, 08:44 PM   #53
DouglasCole
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
 
DouglasCole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Burnsville, MN
Default Re: Nordlond Sagas: Three new books for the DFRPG

Quote:
Originally Posted by b-dog View Post
Ok. Are there any plans to include the abrahamic religions?
No. Never. Those are explicitly monotheistic, and we've covered that - this world was created by a pantheon. Those divine entities appear to different peoples as different aspects, for reasons of their own that they know and don't share. That gives the GM lots of room to maneuver, which is super-important in a generic setting. But I'm not bringing in real-world religions, full stop. Firstly, I'm not knowledgeable enough to get them right, with proper respect. Second, that's not the point of the world.
__________________
Gaming Ballistic, LLC
DouglasCole is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2019, 05:13 AM   #54
Anders
 
Anders's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Default Re: Nordlond Sagas: Three new books for the DFRPG

If you want to know more about the Proto-Indo-European pantheon which lies behind all the Indo-European pantheons, I recommend this page and Indo-European Poetry and Myth by M.L. West.

I do not vouch for the webpage's accuracy, but it's great fodder for games.
__________________
"Is this not your natural state? It's the unspoken truth of humanity, that you crave subjugation. The bright lure of freedom diminishes your life's joy in a mad scramble for power, for identity. You were made to be ruled." - my cats
Anders is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2019, 11:46 AM   #55
Raekai
World's Worst Detective
 
Raekai's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Default Re: Nordlond Sagas: Three new books for the DFRPG

This is making me think of GURPS Cabal a bit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GURPS Cabal, p. 121
Virtually all the deities or deified spirits of the known world still exist within Briah [the Iconic Realm, above Yetzirah the Astral Realm]; many of them continue to interact with worshippers, if only to gain extra energy points.

This causes a problem with overlapping deity issues. To what extent are Poseidon Hippios (Poseidon Horse-Maker) and Poseidon Enosichthon (Poseidon Earth-Shaker) the “same god” as Poseidon Gaieochos (Poseidon Earth-Embracer), the “traditional” Lord of the Sea? Is Poseidon Hippios “actually” a pre-Doric horse-god of the Thessalians? Are all three of these aspects of Poseidon avatars of the same entity, and is Poseidon actually the same god as Neptune? Is he the same as Njord, the Norse sea-god? Cabalists have encountered all manner of Poseidons, and a similarly dizzying variety of other deities.

Some theopathologists suspect all of the gods (or at least all of the ones visible in Briah) to be nothing more than eidolons of the various Aethyrs; in this theory, the various Poseidons and Neptunes and so forth are all shadows of Muumiah, the Aethyr of Elemental Water. Interaction between Muumiah and other Aethyrs, or between their decans, may have “calved off” the non-watery aspects of Poseidon from the central “sea-god” concept. This theory, however, has at least as many historical and empirical holes as it does theological and philosophical ones. For now, Cabalists (and other tourists in Briah) step gingerly around anything that claims divinity – gods are notorious for their poor sense of humor and lack of perspective about such matters.
I hope that's not too much text from one book. And I know this forum is for DFRPG, but this feels entirely too fitting.

So, it seems to me that Odin and Zeus would be different interpretations of the Allfather rather than Zeus being an interpretation of Odin, and I think people would be plenty-willing to fight over who has the correct interpretation. For monotheistic religions, it's not crazy to believe that they worship the Allfather and see the other deities as angels or whatever else (and maybe the Trickster was vilified an turned into the Adversary). Or they may have folded up all of the deities and they simply perceive them as one! If certain deities don't map perfectly, it's not crazy to think that (like in the above excerpt from GURPS Cabal) that there might be two (or more!) different interpretations of a deity that cover certain aspects. It could also go the other way (like in my monotheism example) where a defining line got lost and two different deities are interpreted as one! Or where the lines got muddy, so there are two different deities, but some of their aspects got swapped. And all of them could be real, but just stepped down from their archetypal god.

EDIT: And, of course, Douglas Cole has already said some pretty similar stuff himself. Though, my main addition would be that the Allfather would never directly intervene in mortal affairs—Odin or Zeus would as particular aspects or interpretations of the Allfather.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monotheism and Competing Divinities in Norðlond
One other possibility here is that the gods themselves are real, but given form by the Will of their worshipers. This provides for all sorts of mayhem, as if (say) the Goddess of Death gets a whole lot of followers, she will eventually be supremely powerful. This starts to look like actively proselytizing competing belief systems, which of course isn’t anything our modern world has in great supply (*cough sarcasm cough*). If you want to check out a source where some of that is referenced while still feeling the viking love: read Poul Anderson’s The Broken Sword.

If you want to go all “There’s a War in Heaven,” this is probably the most self-consistent route to take. A strongly monotheistic belief could eventually “force” all of the disparate facets of a One-as-Many being into simply the One Being. If folks are worshiping only the Allfather, eventually not only will the Allfather subsume the other gods, he’ll sort of stop being the Allfather. Talk about being self-conflicted.
So, even if all deities are really "the same", there is plenty of room for conflict between differing interpretations of deities as well as between different deities themselves.

Last edited by Raekai; 11-07-2019 at 12:01 PM.
Raekai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2019, 12:54 PM   #56
b-dog
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Default Re: Nordlond Sagas: Three new books for the DFRPG

Thanks. A lot of interesting stuff. But I am a simple person and I will just have my gods be unique and individual rather than saying they are just aspects of the same god. A god like Poseidon has he sphere in the divine energies of water and he would share that with Aegir but they would be separate with distinct personalities and motivations. In game terms a cleric of Poseidon who finds a holy item of Aegir can use it as long as the cleric consecrates the item first. The item would be imbued with the holy energies of water but would need to dedicate it to the correct god first. This would go for altars too.

But as is I can use the Nordlond stuff for ideas. I can just change the cosmology to suit my tastes.
b-dog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2019, 04:15 PM   #57
Þorkell
Icelandic - Approach With Caution
 
Þorkell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Reykjavík, Iceland
Default Re: Nordlond Sagas: Three new books for the DFRPG

I know I'm nitpicking but Ægir isn't the god of the sea.
__________________
Þorkell Sigvaldason

Viking kittens | My photos | More of my photos
Þorkell is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2019, 06:31 PM   #58
b-dog
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Default Re: Nordlond Sagas: Three new books for the DFRPG

Quote:
Originally Posted by Þorkell View Post
I know I'm nitpicking but Ægir isn't the god of the sea.
Maybe Njord is better? In any case the point I am trying to make is that the Norse gods do not directly overlap over to the Greek gods or Egyptian gods. Each pantheon and god from the pantheon is different than other pantheons and gods of the other pantheons. Plus there are a lot of lesser gods that are unique too. So for me it is easier to just assume that each god is unique and has his own personality and story of how they came to be and what they have done and created.
b-dog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2019, 10:34 PM   #59
Harald387
 
Harald387's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Ottawa, ON, CA
Default Re: Nordlond Sagas: Three new books for the DFRPG

Beating Doug to the announcement punch, Hand of Asgard's preview PDF was released to Kickstarter Backers tonight!
__________________
M2: Everything is true.
GP: Even false things?
M2: Even false things are true.
GP: How can that be?
M2: I don't know man, I didn't do it.
Harald387 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2019, 05:35 AM   #60
Anders
 
Anders's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Default Re: Nordlond Sagas: Three new books for the DFRPG

Quote:
Originally Posted by Þorkell View Post
I know I'm nitpicking but Ægir isn't the god of the sea.
I mean, people sacrificed to Ægir. If that makes him a god or not is a matter of definition.
__________________
"Is this not your natural state? It's the unspoken truth of humanity, that you crave subjugation. The bright lure of freedom diminishes your life's joy in a mad scramble for power, for identity. You were made to be ruled." - my cats
Anders is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:08 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.