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Old 09-20-2018, 07:56 PM   #1
lachimba
 
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Default Does DFRPG more and more resemble a super hero game to you

Im pretty sure my players haven't noticed this as they still are concerned with loot and grinding levels.

But sometimes I look at DFRPG and it looks like a super hero game skinned with Dungeon Fantasy.

You have roles like Brick, Menatlist, Brawler that can filled by various templates.

The loot and breaking ito dungeons is not very Super hero, but I wonder about just going the whole super hero treatment.
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Old 09-21-2018, 01:33 AM   #2
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Default Re: Does DFRPG more and more resemble a super hero game to you

I'm not saying that that's not the case... but in the big picture, DFRPG isn't doing anything different with roles than what other fantasy RPGs do and have always done.

So the question arguably becomes: Did 70s-era D&D begin – consciously or not – as a fantasy skin over a superhero-like base?

(Me, I've never really thought about the superhero genre as a meaningful input into the creation of fantasy RPGs. But it's certainly interesting to look at how the genres of fantasy and superheroes turned out, and make comparisons.)
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Old 09-21-2018, 08:01 AM   #3
DouglasCole
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Default Re: Does DFRPG more and more resemble a super hero game to you

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Originally Posted by tbone View Post
I'm not saying that that's not the case... but in the big picture, DFRPG isn't doing anything different with roles than what other fantasy RPGs do and have always done.

So the question arguably becomes: Did 70s-era D&D begin – consciously or not – as a fantasy skin over a superhero-like base?
I'd say "no" to this one. The lineage of D&D from the miniatures Wargame plus other influences was pretty clear. Even TFT wound up with Fighting Men (Melee) and those guys with the fireball (Wizard), which were the basic unit types in Chainmail.

The superhero stuff probably really started happening when the power curve stopped flattening after level 10 or so ("name level") and just got more awesome all the way to level 20. I don't know if that was 2nd edition or it waited until 3rd or 3.5th.

It's clearly there in Pathfinder and 5e. (Super-humans).

Superhero niches I'm not so sure about, though the tropes and protecting each individual role happens in real life specops too. Of course, they're superheroes in their own way.
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Old 09-21-2018, 04:19 PM   #4
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Default Re: Does DFRPG more and more resemble a super hero game to you

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The superhero stuff probably really started happening when the power curve stopped flattening after level 10 or so ("name level") and just got more awesome all the way to level 20. I don't know if that was 2nd edition or it waited until 3rd or 3.5th.
Third. AD&D2nd is basically a tidied-up 1st; 3rd is a different game system that happens to look quite similar in play.
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Old 09-21-2018, 04:24 PM   #5
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Default Re: Does DFRPG more and more resemble a super hero game to you

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The superhero stuff probably really started happening when the power curve stopped flattening after level 10 or so ("name level") and just got more awesome all the way to level 20. I don't know if that was 2nd edition or it waited until 3rd or 3.5th.
That was first edition -- as long as you played a wizard or cleric. The phrase 'linear fighters, quadratic wizards' dates back to 1e.
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Old 09-21-2018, 08:57 PM   #6
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Default Re: Does DFRPG more and more resemble a super hero game to you

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The phrase 'linear fighters, quadratic wizards' dates back to 1e.
Really? I never once heard it back then, and I played a lot late in that era, even at cons. With frequent random encounters and uneven XP tables, things like this weren't as big an issue back then, at least until levels got to double digits (when we mostly rolled up new characters). Plus 40% of the magic item table was armor/swords/weapons, and another 35% was in consumables (potions/scrolls). (This was even more pronounced in OD&D, when all swords were intelligent (though only half got any benefit) and were 20% of the magic items, while rings/staves/wands/rods/miscellaneous were a mere 15%.)
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Old 09-23-2018, 01:06 PM   #7
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Default Re: Does DFRPG more and more resemble a super hero game to you

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Really? I never once heard it back then, and I played a lot late in that era, even at cons. With frequent random encounters and uneven XP tables, things like this weren't as big an issue back then, at least until levels got to double digits (when we mostly rolled up new characters).
Which is to say, you stopped playing the game at roughly the level it became broken. AD&D wizards were mostly gimps until about fifth level, and a lot of the really broken stuff didn't kick in until you got 6th level spells, though the quadratic effect was present earlier (higher level meant you got more spells, the spells you already had were more effective, and you got new spells that were even better).
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Old 09-21-2018, 01:05 PM   #8
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Default Re: Does DFRPG more and more resemble a super hero game to you

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So the question arguably becomes: Did 70s-era D&D begin – consciously or not – as a fantasy skin over a superhero-like base?
I'm with Doug on this one. AD&D wizards, at high levels, might have felt a bit like supers. But remember those 1st level days... one spell per day, 1-4 hit points. I can't think of a superhero origin story where the character starts out that pathetic (though I'm definitely not an expert on the genre).
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Old 09-22-2018, 02:08 AM   #9
lachimba
 
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Default Re: Does DFRPG more and more resemble a super hero game to you

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Originally Posted by tbone View Post
I'm not saying that that's not the case... but in the big picture, DFRPG isn't doing anything different with roles than what other fantasy RPGs do and have always done.

So the question arguably becomes: Did 70s-era D&D begin – consciously or not – as a fantasy skin over a superhero-like base?

(Me, I've never really thought about the superhero genre as a meaningful input into the creation of fantasy RPGs. But it's certainly interesting to look at how the genres of fantasy and superheroes turned out, and make comparisons.)
Well the reason I said DFRPG and not high powered fantasy is because I run DFRPG and not (insert system) fantasy.


As it is there are a lot of comparison between the cinematic versions of Hawkeye and Legolas or comparing say Dr Strange and a DF Wizard and so on.
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Old 09-23-2018, 07:52 AM   #10
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Default Re: Does DFRPG more and more resemble a super hero game to you

Keep in mind that both concepts have roots in the genre of heroic epics, which date back to the origins of literature. The parallels between the fantasy party and the super team are later additions, but probably more an inevitable consequence of structuring a story so multiple characters can contribute to advancing the plot than anything else. Plenty of other genres have specialist characters for just that reason.
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