GURPS Rifts?

[LoneWolf23k]

Originally Posted by Rasputin

A post-apocalyptic game published by Palladium Games. It has tech, magic, psionics, monsters, dessert toppings, floor cleaners and the kitchen sink. The game world manages to combine these well, but the Palladium Megaversal System is an unholy mish-mash of AD&D 1st edition and Runequest.

While the setting is interesting, it suffers from the ruleset, and even moreso due to Palladium Games managment's frustrating resistance to even the suggestion of revising the rule system and it's determination to keeping people from converting the game to other systems.

[Shrale]

Originally Posted by nanoboy

When I was messing around with the issue, I just adjusted the spell damage upward (though an armor divisor would be fine, too) on the assumption that since Rifts Earth is extra, extra magical, damage from spells is greater.

I don't think it works that way. I have their Megaverse Builder and the super magical energies that envelope Rifts have mostly to do with the environment, not their individual spells. According to that book, Rifts Earth is super-saturated. Then it also describes their Heroes Unlimited Earth (for their HU product) as being on the low end. However the same exact spells are listed for both settings. The main difference is (I'm running off memory here) is that Ley Lines are almost invisible in HU and they don't provide extra PPE (mana) to mages, hard to detect, and that the dimensional fabric is almost impossible to penetrate (meaning harder to travel between dimensions). However a HU Fireball and a Rifts Fireball both do the same 1D4 damage per level of the caster. I haven't seen anything to indicate otherwise.

Of course damage (not just spells) are considerably nerfed in Rifts (and all palladium products) mainly explosives. You can use HE weapons in GURPS and do the "one shot, one kill" while in Rifts it's generally unlikely.

How do you intend to convert Mega-Damage ?

I think you'll probably end up using the best parts of both games to strike a balance, but I doubt you'd be able to convert every little thing.

Mainly, why would you want to ? <laugh>

[nanoboy]

Originally Posted by Shrale

I don't think it works that way. I have their Megaverse Builder and the super magical energies that envelope Rifts have mostly to do with the environment, not their individual spells. According to that book, Rifts Earth is super-saturated. Then it also describes their Heroes Unlimited Earth (for their HU product) as being on the low end. However the same exact spells are listed for both settings. The main difference is (I'm running off memory here) is that Ley Lines are almost invisible in HU and they don't provide extra PPE (mana) to mages, hard to detect, and that the dimensional fabric is almost impossible to penetrate (meaning harder to travel between dimensions). However a HU Fireball and a Rifts Fireball both do the same 1D4 damage per level of the caster. I haven't seen anything to indicate otherwise.

Of course damage (not just spells) are considerably nerfed in Rifts (and all palladium products) mainly explosives. You can use HE weapons in GURPS and do the "one shot, one kill" while in Rifts it's generally unlikely.

How do you intend to convert Mega-Damage ?

I think you'll probably end up using the best parts of both games to strike a balance, but I doubt you'd be able to convert every little thing.

Mainly, why would you want to ? <laugh>

Remember that you are balancing the magic to the setting. Just use the setting and keep most of the GURPS rules intact. Without going into details (to avoid the silliness of the Palladium IP protection rules) don't bother converting Mega-Damage. Just give armor high DR and so on. Remember that you're using GURPS and don't hamstring yourself.

Try to think of it as having none of the rules for Rifts, just the setting. From there, you should be able to have fun.

[PaladinV]

To me mega damage is a simple concept which they made a very complicated one. Basically the materials used to build mega damage armors are so durable that conventional damage sources don't affect them. The guys over at Palladium wanted a system where some things where uber and some where not so they made mega damage armor for uber protection and mega damage weapons for uber damage to counteract uber protection. The answer is of course to just beef up DR and then create a set of weapons to counter the new higher DR the other option is to toy around with multipliers but why do that, just use the scaling rules already in place to deal with huge numbers of HP and DR.

I agree with Nano, you do your write ups with descriptions only and forget about any sort of direct conversion or any of the hodge podge rules over in RIFTS. The whole reason you are converting is because those rules are inferior to GURPS anyway.

If I'm doing a conversion to any system I start off by making a couple of benchmarks. Like the highest damage weapon or the most powerful character or the absolute highest possible defenseive ablilities. Once you know where that is you can work your way down. Or heck you can make it in the middle and then know what the average is. That's up to you but benchmarks help me alot.

[Shrale]

I whole-heartedly agree.

First thing I would do, is get rid of mega-damage. Use the GURPS system, even 3e is much better than the inconsistent/non-sensical palladium system.

[Phantasm]

Originally Posted by Shrale

However a HU Fireball and a Rifts Fireball both do the same 1D4 damage per level of the caster. I haven't seen anything to indicate otherwise.

The difference there, though, is that HU is an SDC setting, and Rifts is an MDC setting. The difference between an HU 1d4 SDC fireball and a Rifts 1d4 MDC fireball is a factor of 100.

Originally Posted by Shrale

How do you intend to convert Mega-Damage ?

Here's a tip: Don't. Making MDC weapons Armor-Piercing, and MDC armor Hardened and Semi-Ablative fits the concept of harder-hitting weapons and sturdier armor that can be whittled away better than Palladium's system.

Edit: if you message me, I can send you my conversion notes.

[Lord_Kjeran]

Chello!

Originally Posted by HeroPenguin

Minor topicjack, but I'm currently playing in a RIFTS campaign that is actually cohesive and dramatic, with a minimum of powergaming going on.

Roger that....sounds like my group's game in Rifts right now...! :)

Tony

[Shrale]

I'm getting ready to start a Phase World campaign. You can get good players, but you can get other types just the same.

[oma]

I'm working on my post apoc earth with magic and aliens and everything including the kitchen sink. Of course it's not RIFTS, cause I would NEVER :) try to violate their special copyright, patent, lockdown, IR whatever thingy.

But, I have some questions. If I want the whittling effect from my SUPER damage lasers, in UTp115 Hvy Lase pistol does 4d(2). This is not enough to ever challenge the DR 50 we were talking about a bit ago. So the power armor with DR 50 is invulnerable to my SUPER dmg laser. Soooo, do I up the armor divisor to (3) go with that? It seems to me to avoid the problem of too much damage just ruining the fight immediately, I should have bigger armor divisors on my weapons and not higher damage necessarily.

Also, said laser costs $1,100. This seems ultra cheap compared to regular HT weapons which are maybe 500-800 range. Shouldn't the UT weapon be much more expensive than the HT weapon?
Or is the difference in tech level a cost factor?? The HT weapons are TL8 and the Laser is TL10 -11. Would that change the cost for the characters in the campaign?

[Crakkerjakk]

Originally Posted by oma

So the power armor with DR 50 is invulnerable to my SUPER dmg laser.

The moral of the story is not to try to punch through power armor with a pistol. If you WANT that to happen, yes, feel free to crank up the armor divisor.

Originally Posted by oma

Or is the difference in tech level a cost factor?? The HT weapons are TL8 and the Laser is TL10 -11. Would that change the cost for the characters in the campaign?

Set the local TL at some value. I'd generally go with 9. Anything higher TL costs double for each TL above, so a TL 10 device is x 2 book cost, and a TL 11 device is x 4. For those that they can actually buy instead of finding in caches.