Can I put an Alternative Ability into a Modular Slot?

[Fnordianslip]

If you get to use the MA to make up AAs, you should get the downside as well as the upside. The reason AAs are cheaper is that they are linked to the main ability. If the main ability is crippled, so are the AA's. If any of them are crippled, the entire power set is unavailable, because they are subsets of the same power. If you're currently using your MA as an AA, it should be vulnerable to the same thing. In your magic box example, I would say that since, at the time of the malfunction, the magic box was mystically linked to your crossbow, it also fails to work. That's just because, in game terms, you were linking the magic box to the crossbow, otherwise it wouldn't be bought as an AA.

[vicky_molokh]

I just don't understand how crippling the product of a source automatically cripple the source. If someone screws up your audio playback program, that doesn't necessarily cripple the OS.

Also, isn't there a mention in the RAW that there is a distinction between limiting the MA's use and limiting the use of the goodies you put into the MA slot?

P.S. A straignt no with an explanation would've been easier to accept. But your idea of a yes with a drawback seems to cause some inconsistencies.

[vitruvian]

On balance, if the Modular Ability itself is not being bought as an Alternative Ability, then it won't be crippled when the 'main' power is. However, when allowing the purchase of AAs out of the Modular Ability, and the main power is disabled somehow, it should no longer be possible to do *that*; no alternative to a crippled ability is possible for the duration. However, unrelated abilities (bought without the 1/5 cost) should still be possible - unless the MA was bought either trait or focus-limited to only cover the alternatives, in which case there are no valid uses for it at this time. On the face of it, "Only valid Alternative Abilities to X" looks like no more than a -20% trait limitation on a Modular Ability, since it's still quite flexible.

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

I'd certainly let you take the Modular Ability as an AA to another power. I've built a Green Lantern rip-off that way. (Buy a crapload of TK, and then add a few AA Innate Attacks and an AA Cosmic Power.)

I'm not so sure about letting someone take a normal Modular Ability and then using it to buy an ability that they define as an AA to another ability -- it seems like it goes against the spirit of what an AA is. I'm not dismissing it out of hand, though -- I'd have to think about it.

The former is the only way that allowing the two concepts (ModAb and AltAb) to combine makes sense, SFAICT. It will force all modular abilities to fit within the parameters of acceptable AAs. The idea of allowing a ModAb to build Alternate Abilities to some other ability that it itself is not linked to (as an Alternate) looks broken to me.

[vitruvian]

The idea of allowing a ModAb to build Alternate Abilities to some other ability that it itself is not linked to (as an Alternate) looks broken to me.

I'm not really sure why. An unlimited Cosmic Modular Ability, with Physical +100%, costs 20x its value as a pool of points, and really should be able to use those points for almost anything. Even with the 1/5 cost thing, you're still paying... well, let's take an example.

'Main' Ability X (Innate Attack or something) [50]

Cosmic Modular Ability 10 pts (Physical +100%) [200]

So, sure, you could spend those 10 points to make any of a huge range of 50 pt Alternative Abilities, but if actually taking those AAs normally, you'd be able to buy 20 different abilities, so long as they were properly thematically related to the 'main' power. Let's even say the character has -20% Trait-Limited in there; that's still 180 points, equivalent to 18 regular AAs. I don't know about your campaigns, but in mine it could take quite a while for a player to pull out that many different variations on a power, and don't forget that the GM can be as stringent as necessary about what exactly qualifies as a valid alternate.

I don't really see a problem with it, given that for most characters it would be cheaper to just buy a fairly broad array of AAs directly, and fill in any gaps with the rules for Using Powers at Default and One-Time Feats using Ultrapower. Or, indeed, use the optional rule from the Powers Designer's Notes and Supers for Wildcard Abilities - that's actually more useful, since you can actually use your additional powers *at the same time* as the base power.

[Bruno]

Personally, unless the ModAb was specifically only for making more magic arrows for the crossbow (or whatever), I'd say No simply to avoid the headache of deciding what happens if the crossbow goes offline with a magic bolt in it.

However, my instinct is that the POINTS/slots dedicated to the AA would become unavailable until the AA is fixed. Any leftover points/slots can be used as normal.

In the example of your Magic Box and Magic Crossbow, Molokh, the magic kit-parts-thingers that you used to make a flaming-arrow-extension for your crossbow are stuck somewhere in the broken wreckage of your magic crossbow. Until you get the crossbow sorted out, you aren't getting your flaming-arrow-extension back.

I might allow the points to be recovered before the AA is completely repaired, but it's going to definitely need some kind of intervention to get those points back. I would not allow you to reassign them to enhancing your magic sword until some kind of effort is made to extract them from your magic crossbow.

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by vitruvian

I'm not really sure why. An unlimited Cosmic Modular Ability, with Physical +100%, costs 20x its value as a pool of points, and really should be able to use those points for almost anything. Even with the 1/5 cost thing, you're still paying... well, let's take an example.

'Main' Ability X (Innate Attack or something) [50]

Cosmic Modular Ability 10 pts (Physical +100%) [200]

Because there's no thematic connection. If the Cosmic ModAb is supposed to be able to build AltAbs to Ability 'X', then why isn't it (the ModAB) the primary power, since it is more expensive?

[vitruvian]

Because there's no thematic connection.

Because there only needs to be a thematic connection between the main ability and the one you pull out of the Modular Ability - not with the Modular Ability itself. To my mind, at least if you don't limit it, Cosmic MA with Physical +100% is meant to allow you to do just about *anything* with those points. E.g., if you have an Alternate Form with a positive template cost, it should be fine to buy Cosmic Modular Ability 15 pts (+50% Physical, -30% Alternate Forms only) [180] (or a little more if you need an enhancement like Once On, Stays On or Reduced Time for the AF) for an unending series of further Alternate Forms, so long as none of them have a template cost greater than that for the one bought outside the Cosmic MA.

If the Cosmic ModAb is supposed to be able to build AltAbs to Ability 'X', then why isn't it (the ModAB) the primary power, since it is more expensive?

Because the AltAbs it builds are not themselves more expensive?

Anyway, the reason I don't see it as abusive is simply that I don't see things like Wildcard Abilities (4x cost to be able to do a variety of extra things with an ability) as abusive, and that actually works out to be less expensive and allow you to do more than just about any Modular Abilities construct of this kind. Even if you limit the Modular Abilities real severely, a Cosmic pool can never be reduced below a 2 for 1 cost, equating to a +40% enhancement on the base ability's modified cost (if allowing AAs) and most likely effectively crippling the MA for all practical uses.