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Old 02-04-2019, 12:33 PM   #11
Magesmiley
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Snohomish, WA
Default Re: Starting to Play Car Wars

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Originally Posted by owenmp View Post
Chris Goodwin,

Thank you for the very helpful reply. When I duelmastered Car Wars games regularly, I also discovered having each player perform their own speed tracking, movement, and handling monitoring made gameplay go significantly faster. At the time, I did not have the beautiful, large, magnetic white board with a multi-colored Movement Chart Magesmiley uses for his 3X 3-D Car Wars events, a game-aid that works well.
The colorful charts I made were done in Excel incidentally. Printed on multiple pages, laminated, trimmed, and then attached using double-sided tape. I have a small speed/handling sheet that I use for games when I travel.
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Old 02-04-2019, 03:06 PM   #12
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Default Re: Starting to Play Car Wars

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Originally Posted by owenmp View Post
What aspects of the game are difficult for you?
-- Jumping/Falling: Badly overcomplicated, which drives players away, and causes even experienced players to avoid arenas with jumps. [Yes, I have a solution for that. :) ]

-- Fire/Explosion: Too many die-rolls required. [Yes, I have a solution for that, as well. :) ]

-- Calculating To-Hit: It's always been a bit annoying to me that the *lower* a base T-H is, the better it is.

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What types of games do like to play most often (arenas, highway duels, mini-scenarios, adventures, multi-session campaigns, etc.)?
I try to do a bit of everything; as much as I like steak, I don't eat it every day.... :)

The problem arises with anything multi-session; trying to get all the players involved to show up can be a scheduling nightmare.

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What types of play-aids do you need to understand the game better and make it easier to play?
Ah, yes -- this. I write stuff down; for ex., when drawing up the damage sheet for a car, next to each weapon is data like "to-hit number", "damage", and such (with any bonuses). That way, it's right there where the player can find it quickly, as opposed to silly-walking through the manual.
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Old 02-04-2019, 03:14 PM   #13
Chris Goodwin
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon, USA
Default Re: Starting to Play Car Wars

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Originally Posted by owenmp View Post
Chris Goodwin,

You are welcome. Thank you for mentioning BoardGameGeek has Hawke's play-aid. Please make your tool available as well. I want to post an updated Car Wars play-aids list to my Web site in a few months.
It looks like you already have a link to Hawke's version, off of your Play-Aids page, under the name Handling Status Player Aid.

I'll try to get mine somewhere on the web that you can reach it, or I can send it to you if you can host the file. I'll probably want to edit mine some before I put it up, as well.
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Old 02-04-2019, 03:36 PM   #14
TheAmishStig
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Lancaster, PA
Default Re: Starting to Play Car Wars

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Originally Posted by Magesmiley View Post
The colorful charts I made were done in Excel incidentally. Printed on multiple pages, laminated, trimmed, and then attached using double-sided tape. I have a small speed/handling sheet that I use for games when I travel.
Your rig has inspired a few of us...my Car Wars events wouldn't be where they are without you.

I'm reasonably happy with my "condensed" movement and control tables...game aids made because I was losing too many piqued-interest players to the "Ooh, what's this? Eww, no thanks..." flip upon seeing multiple sheets of charts and tables.

Still haven't found a good solution to in-scale turning keys and 3D obstacles not playing nice with one another, though.
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Old 02-04-2019, 05:03 PM   #15
industrialchild
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Default Re: Starting to Play Car Wars

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Still haven't found a good solution to in-scale turning keys and 3D obstacles not playing nice with one another, though.
I'm going to apologize for my ignorance with this part of your post, Andy, but if it's not too much trouble could you clarify what you mean by in-scale turning keys (do you mean changing the size of turning keys when you go up or down in the scale measurements in your game) and also how it happens that some 3D obstacles do not play nice with one another. I've just been playing with 2D maps and counters at this point in my early CW career, but I love the fact and hugely respect that one could play Car Wars like this.

I only ask out of a genuine interest and a willingness to learn. Thanks in advance.

Last edited by industrialchild; 02-04-2019 at 05:35 PM.
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Old 02-04-2019, 07:50 PM   #16
Magesmiley
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Snohomish, WA
Default Re: Starting to Play Car Wars

Andy is referring to the problems that the turn keys run into when you're using a 3D arena rather than a flat map - the upright structures make it difficult to get a turn key into place in some cases.
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Old 02-04-2019, 07:58 PM   #17
TheAmishStig
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Lancaster, PA
Default Re: Starting to Play Car Wars

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Originally Posted by industrialchild View Post
I'm going to apologize for my ignorance with this part of your post, Andy, but if it's not too much trouble could you clarify what you mean by in-scale turning keys (do you mean changing the size of turning keys when you go up or down in the scale measurements in your game) and also how it happens that some 3D obstacles do not play nice with one another. I've just been playing with 2D maps and counters at this point in my early CW career, but I love the fact and hugely respect that one could play Car Wars like this.

I only ask out of a genuine interest and a willingness to learn. Thanks in advance.
Not a problem at all! Around the house it's so much easier to do on graph paper and a sheet of acrylic on top [smooths out fold-ridges and things], but out on the convention circuit Magesmiley unintentionally shamed me into going whole-hog; I'd initially wanted to step up from graph paper and make something at normal scale out of foam core and construction paper...then I got a good look at his Rainbow Bay and have rarely felt so inadequate.

You are correct...when I say "in-scale", I mean the distance between each of the angle marks is one car length...whether that be 1" for counters-and-tokens, or 3" for a Hot Wheels scale game. The problem a 3D build runs into is that the keys are fairly large in comparison to a single car, and are used by lining up on the side of the token. On a 2D map it's no big deal, lay the key on top of a printed line (and any tokens)...but in 3D, that means that whenever a car is near a wall or a building or etc, there's no room to put the key down.

The first thing I tried was thin sticks that were a single angle...worked exactly like the key [line the front corner up, slide around to line the back corner up], but was just a small piece about as long and wide as your pinky. They work and are my go-to, but still have the 'align down the side' problem with really tight squeezes.

Last fall, I started experimenting with something that lines up with the front of the car (if you look close at the gallery linked below, you'll see them)...but 'two points of contact' (the L shape, touching both front and side) meant it didn't actually solve the problem. Fixing that is the focus of my next "iteration" of the game aids. There has to be a way...

In the interest of full disclosure: I have a 3D arena at 2x scale...built to be compatible with the 2" = 1 car / close to HO scale when 6th Edition launches. If you'd like to see pictures, the current iteration is here. There will likely be one more full rebuild after this; I want to learn how to cast resin to get the tolerances down even further, having run into a problem now where my woodworking tools just aren't accurate enough to get the cuts exactly where I want them. Plus it'd be nice to not throw out my back loading it into the car...right now it's in a 45 gallon wheelie tote.
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Old 02-04-2019, 08:57 PM   #18
industrialchild
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Default Re: Starting to Play Car Wars

Thank you for the clarification Andy and for sharing those pictures! That looks like a lot of fun indeed! That's crazy it's currently being held in a 45 gallon tote! Wow!

The ingenuity involved in taking this game into the 3D realm is very impressive and inspiring to me. I already know my interest in Car Wars is more than a fleeting one and one of these days, I'll surely make it a point to attend one of these meetups some way, some how.

I perfectly understand now the issue that you have sometimes with 3D obstacles. That surely is not an easy problem to solve and you just blew my mind.

While I'm not familiar with playing CW in that way, the first thought that came to mind would be to utilize something thin like a various paper clips bent at certain angles for those really tight squeezes, but paper clips I think would be unforgiving and fight you the entire way when you're trying to get a read on it. Maybe coat hangers? I don't know...

That is an interesting problem for sure Andy! Good luck with that and I'll let you know if an idea enters my mind regarding this dilemma!

Last edited by industrialchild; 02-04-2019 at 09:08 PM.
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Old 02-04-2019, 09:55 PM   #19
TheAmishStig
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Lancaster, PA
Default Re: Starting to Play Car Wars

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Originally Posted by industrialchild View Post
Thank you for the clarification Andy and for sharing those pictures! That looks like a lot of fun indeed! That's crazy it's currently being held in a 45 gallon tote! Wow!

The ingenuity involved in taking this game into the 3D realm is very impressive and inspiring to me. I already know my interest in Car Wars is more than a fleeting one and one of these days, I'll surely make it a point to attend one of these meetups some way, some how.

I perfectly understand now the issue that you have sometimes with 3D obstacles. That surely is not an easy problem to solve and you just blew my mind.

While I'm not familiar with playing CW in that way, the first thought that came to mind would be to utilize something thin like a various paper clips bent at certain angles for those really tight squeezes, but paper clips I think would be unforgiving and fight you the entire way when you're trying to get a read on it. Maybe coat hangers? I don't know...

That is an interesting problem for sure Andy! Good luck with that and I'll let you know if an idea enters my mind regarding this dilemma!
Appreciated! There's gotta be an answer. I've had one idea, but I don't know if it'll be too small to handle well. Suppose we'll see once I get it prototyped out!

If you're in the Baltimore area, may be able to see / play it in person! This year I'm committed to an event near Hagerstown, MD, and will almost guaranteed be at one in Harrisburg, PA. Next year I'm hoping to do something really special, and get out more (ideally also hitting events in Frederick MD, and Lancaster PA)...but it's gonna be a lot of hard work to get ready in time.
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Old 02-05-2019, 09:12 AM   #20
Magesmiley
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Snohomish, WA
Default Re: Starting to Play Car Wars

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Appreciated! There's gotta be an answer. I've had one idea, but I don't know if it'll be too small to handle well. Suppose we'll see once I get it prototyped out!

Rainbow Bay has the problem with turn keys big time. I don't even put them out, and instead just use the sticks I've made up. I've been considering another solution though to the tight corner problem: in theory, it should be possible to make some sticks to work with the outside edge of a turning car.

It's also worth noting that the upcoming 6th edition's turn gages work differently than the keys. Based on my understanding, they'll perform in tight spaces like the sticks that Andy and I use. They might be a bit better though - I *think* though that they could be used in a two-step process on the outside of the car to do turns.

(And keep in mind that with the Classic game, it's still possible to make maneuvers without a key too.)
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