04-07-2005, 03:09 PM | #11 |
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Re: WWII + Supers = ???
Hiroshima and Nagasaki are great examples of how secret weapons win wars.
As for how useful a super would be in a war Like WWII would depend, IMO, on how many there were for each side and how they were used. If a group of super tanks, like the SH Colossus had been available to use at Normady for instance, how much smaller would the allied casualties have been. Send in the Tanks first to clear out the landing area bunkers, followed by waves of regular soldiers whicvh were used in the RL first attakcs. How about using flight capable supers to guide in the Airbourne gliders so that they aren't scattered from here to kingdom come? Or sending them in first to secure bridges and then dropping airbourne after? WHat if German submarine warfare was suplimented by an aquatic super who could smash through ship's hulls? More importantly, what if one of the german metahumans was involved int he first Plot to assasinate Hitler - and it was successful becuase of it. Someone LIke ROmmel comnes to power, and the German Army begins to be used both intelligently and resourcefully. Russian isn't attakced, but the treaty is shored up until the rest of EUrope is dealt with - Jews aren't hunted down. ( I actually ran this as a campaign, so that is where the immediate idea comes from) What if all governments mysteriously and benevolently decided not to used their supers against each other, but only to counter enemy supers. (as if dropping the A-bomb doesn't somewhat negate this reality). There are a lot of things that could be changed depending on how supers are used and viewed. |
04-07-2005, 03:45 PM | #12 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Saint Louis or thereabouts
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Re: WWII + Supers = ???
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Having said that, back in the day I ran a GURPS Supers game set the IST world's WW II. We decided to scale the game down to the 250 pt. "realistic" level, and the players took on the roles of members of Project Los Angeles: Lucifer (blaster), Sergeant Strike (tank), The Gadgeteer (erm, a gadgeteer :P), etc. Looking back the psis, skulkers and gadgeteer types had the most impact on the game. At 250 pts. under 3e, the combat types could easily be killed by normal troops. Although I like your numbers better - a batallion of Sergeant Strikes might have had a real impact on the war ;)
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04-07-2005, 05:31 PM | #13 | |
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Yucca Valley, CA
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Re: WWII + Supers = ???
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Arguably SDI helped win the cold war, but I would draw a distinction between a secret weapon and an idea for one. GEF |
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04-07-2005, 05:43 PM | #14 | |
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Yucca Valley, CA
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Re: WWII + Supers = ???
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A "tank" superhero does not have a significant battlefield capability that an actual tank does not. Oh sure it has differing characteristics that may suit it relatively for some missions, but the capacity to shoot and be shot at are not unique, and the actual tank has the property that you can make several just alike, train ordinary men to use them, and replace losses to each. If there is a strain of mutants who all have the same characteristics, then they become much more useful to a strategist. Now suppose I have a super with capabilities that technology cannot yet reproduce, like mind-reading. Should I send a mind-reader to the field, or to the lab? My hopes might fail in either case, but the potential pay-off from the lab, a mind-reading technology that ordinary men can use, is greater than the payoff from using him as a spy, especially given what spies can uncover without mutant powers. GEF |
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04-07-2005, 05:55 PM | #15 | |
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Yucca Valley, CA
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Re: WWII + Supers = ???
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As for Allied and Axis supers cancelling each other out, that's not a logically certain conclusion, just an easy one for background purposes. Suppose the Nazi supers are 10% more (quality or quantity, it doesn't matter), then after a series of clashes the Allied supers are all dead but 10% of the supernazis and SSS are still alive. Analogous to air supremacy, supers supremacy is now achieved, what is the consequence for the endgame? Anticipation of Normandy? The assassination of Ike? Fimbulwinter in Britain? Furthermore, you can imagine significant changes in history without altering the actual outcome of the war. What if the terrible conditions of the concentration camps induced a higher proportion of metahuman manifestations? If Mengela's experiments determined that only Jews demonstrate this extreme stress response, what would be the consequences for the acceptance of Nazi ideas? What would Israel have become? You get the idea. I think the presence of supers more or less evenly distributed among the participants would be unlikely to head off the eventual Allied victory but would have extreme consequences that would have been subtle to start. GEF |
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04-07-2005, 06:21 PM | #16 | |
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Sumter, SC
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Re: WWII + Supers = ???
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Over at Marvel (then Atlas amoung other names) things were a little easier for not only was the list of superheroes much smaller, and their powers were more at the Mystery Man level (Human Torch was a noted exception), but the Axis Powers had people like the Red Skull, Agent Axis, and Baron Zemo to bedevil the Allies' heroes. The IST world follows the Marvel example somewhat - few powers available and very few supers in general. This effectively limits what the supers can do and how either side would use them. |
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04-08-2005, 12:53 AM | #17 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Re: WWII + Supers = ???
Godlike is the diffinitive book on this subject (and is a badass game with a badass rules set to boot) Plentiful numbers of Supers of varring power levels on both sides cancel each other out. And making them non-genetic (in Godlike all Superpowers are drived from reality warping Psi) means you elliminate the logistics of extencive Breeding Programes and Biological Testing, getting your supermen to the front that much faster.
PS: GODLIKE is owned and currently published by Arcdream publishing, not Pagan Press. Though they did the first Printing of the core book. |
04-08-2005, 01:04 AM | #18 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Nashville, TN
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Re: WWII + Supers = ???
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I didn't realize who I was until I stopped being who I wasn't. Formerly known as Bookman- forum name changed 1/3/2018. |
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04-08-2005, 05:25 AM | #19 |
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Seattle, WA, USA
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Re: WWII + Supers = ???
For more flavor, you might check out Thor meets Captain America. Not quite the same but it could give you ideas.
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04-08-2005, 02:28 PM | #20 |
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Texas
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Re: WWII + Supers = ???
The backstory of the MMORPG City of Heroes is based on the political, social, and military acceptance and usage of Supers throughout history starting in the 20s.
And yes, They were used as "Super-Soldiers" in WWII. Here's a link: http://www.cityofheroes.com/features/fiction.html Check out the timeline. Use the "Navigate Backstory" pulldown thingy and read the "War Begins" and "War Continues" sections if you just want the WWII stuff. But I reccomend reading the whole thing to get the entire picture. This seems to me like a very "realistic" take on what would likely have happened. The following is an excerpt from the "Cold War" section, but could be modified and used earlier: "In 1956, Congress passed the Might for Right act. This law proclaimed super-powered individuals and vigilante heroes a valuable national resource subject to draft without notice into the service of the United States government." |
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