Odd Designs: Bikes And The Mechanics

[43Supporter]

[NOTE: Did I ever just date myself with *that* pun. :) ]

"Nightstrike" from _ADQ 1/2_ features among the Defender's cycles this rather unusual bit of kit (shown in undamaged form):

Hv. Cycle; Imp. Susp.; Md. PP [600 PF]; 2x Std. tire; Driver. MG [F]; Cargo: 3 sp./330 lbs. [1] Armor: F: 8; B: 7. $3,580; 1,300 lbs.

Lt. S-car; Hv. Susp.; Std. tire. Cargo: 2 sp./185 lbs. [2] Armor: all sides: 0. $1,650; 400 lbs.

[1: Contains 2 cases of Portable Shop -- $2,000]
[2: Contains other 2 cases of Portable Shop -- $2,000; as the cases are separable, this does not materially affect the P.S.]

Total: $9,230; 1,700 lbs. (loaded). Acc.: 5; TS: 95; HC: 3.

This is an aspect of the Biker Gang one rarely, if ever, sees depicted -- the Rear-Echelon Motorcycle. One often sees descriptions of "wrecks stripped by biker gangs", but how often does one see the bike ridden by the mechanic doing the stripping, or the bike which carries off the parts salvaged?

It's not exactly brilliant at the job -- most of its available hauling capacity goes to the Portable Shop needed to get the parts off a wreck to begin with; that sidecar is completely unarmored, so if this thing gets caught, there's every chance of the Shop getting shredded; it's sufficiently slow, it might well *get* caught if its raiding party gets ambushed; and the tires are weak and unprotected. It does have that one cargo space on the cycle itself which is (somewhat) protected by armor, so it's not totally hopeless; definitely *NOT* a "line-combat" unit, though. (As it appears in the scenario: Its raiding party *did* get ambushed, and it got chopped up a bit.)

Were I the soul riding it, I'd want to upgrade the tires for certain, for no other reason than to allow me that much more time before they are shot off. Adding armor to the sidecar might not be all that useful -- there's not quite enough weight to make it worthwhile. A powerplant swap to something which boosts Acc. to 10, at the expense of the cycle's third cargo space, might be a better option (if such a plant becomes available -- bikers can't always be choosers).

Still, it is interesting to see the author of the scenario showing the players the Other Side of the "combat/non-combat" fence.

[swordtart]

For the majority of road side salvage, I'd think a tool kit was about the right level.

As discussed previously even the worst pickup would be a better bet. The mechanic shouldn't be getting into a fight for any reason. He (and probably a medic) should be off-stage..

Night strike was unusual in that you were attacking the base so this may have simply been the mechanism to get the portable shop from one temporary base to another (though you would think they'd use the bus instead). On the other hand it might have simply been a convenient place to store the cases whilst the mechanic was working on the bike.

With Dreg gangs, I also have other car wrecks dropped at the current base to use as accommodation. Whilst a single point of of top armour is useless against a direct attack, it will keep the rain off.

It's hard to work out how some of the damage occurred. For instance there are a few examples where wheels have been totally destroyed. How do you get a bike with only 1 wheel home? If your sidecar lost a wheel, surely you would detach the sidecar until you had fixed it. Clearly the bikers don't have a logical repair programme in place.

I do like to see the jury-rigged plant on one of the bikes though.

[43Supporter]

Originally Posted by swordtart

For the majority of road side salvage, I'd think a tool kit was about the right level.

For smaller stuff, I'd agree; however, for any Medium-or-above-level repair, a P.S. will be desirable, if not a necessity.

Originally Posted by swordtart

As discussed previously even the worst pickup would be a better bet. The mechanic shouldn't be getting into a fight for any reason. He (and probably a medic) should be off-stage..

True, unless one also uses the pickup as "artillery". (I have a design based off the _Bombardier_ which has an ATG F, plus a sizable cargo capacity; it serves as fire-support during an attack, then hauls off the salvage.) Given even a fairly-lightweight four-wheeler is going cost at least $10K or so, one may as well give it multiple purposes to make it worthwhile.

Originally Posted by swordtart

Night strike was unusual in that you were attacking the base so this may have simply been the mechanism to get the portable shop from one temporary base to another (though you would think they'd use the bus instead). On the other hand it might have simply been a convenient place to store the cases whilst the mechanic was working on the bike.

The bus in the scenario is immobile -- the plant's been taken apart. (The head villain uses it as his "castle" while he's at home.)

The cycle appears to be a dedicated rear-echelon unit, left at base due to damage (on which topic, more below); this suggests there may be other such units in the gang's TO&E. Not a *lot* of them, necessarily; just enough to deal with the salvage the gang produces, or to fix a bike which gets unlucky.

Originally Posted by swordtart

It's hard to work out how some of the damage occurred. For instance there are a few examples where wheels have been totally destroyed. How do you get a bike with only 1 wheel home? If your sidecar lost a wheel, surely you would detach the sidecar until you had fixed it. Clearly the bikers don't have a logical repair programme in place.

It's possible the tire is missing because it was shot up but still usable, and is in the process of being replaced. "Towing" a bike which is short of its regular complement of tires is possible, but cumbersome (if the pics I've seen are any indicator, it's a "hold my beer and watch this" exercise).

As to "logical repair programs": These are bikers -- getting parts can be... interesting... at times. This is why in the OP I said "power plant upgrade *if possible*"; it could be the Md. PP was the only plant available to the mechanic the bike belongs to, and he's just waiting for an opportunity to "move up in rank".... >:)

One variant idea comes to mind: Move the sidecar P.S. cases to the main bike; move the MG to the sidecar; remove half the MG ammo to bring it within weight.

[Racer]

Bed of the Pickup can also carry injured gang members or even a Hvy. Cycle with wheel Ramp(s) .
A Toolkit in the Cab is also a good idea , in case Portable Shop takes a hit in the Cargo bed or more than one character has Mechanic skill .

[swordtart]

Half the damaged bikes could be fixed by simply cannibalising the others. If you have lost wheels (you can limp home of you only lost tyres) you need to do that at the site of your fight unless you have a pickup to haul them home. I'd be carrying spare wheels in that pickup instead as bringing home a bike takes up too much space and weight and you would prefer that to be loot.

I suspect the sidecar combo with the portable shop is just in the process of being cannibalised rather than being a dedicated tool transporter. It's also easier in scenario terms to have the loot in a definite place rather than on the floor somewhere.

A bike gang cannot live by salvage alone. Attacks on bikes often end up with twisted scrap so you will eventually run out of parts. They will generally have a friendly town (or a member who can pass as a non-gang member in otherwise hostile towns) where they can sell off their surplus and buy spares and stuff they cannot salvage.

The game seems to default to gangs raiding towns (which is eventually going to get them wiped out). There the priority will also be spares.

A portable shop is not necessary in CW, a toolkit is entirely adequate for simple repairs (it just provides a slightly worse bonus). You'd be better with multiple tool kits (or mini-mechanics once they come in) so several people can work on different bikes simultaneously. Even a non-mechanic can do the easy stuff like salvaging tires and ammunition.

[43Supporter]

Originally Posted by swordtart

Half the damaged bikes could be fixed by simply cannibalising the others. If you have lost wheels (you can limp home of you only lost tyres) you need to do that at the site of your fight unless you have a pickup to haul them home. I'd be carrying spare wheels in that pickup instead as bringing home a bike takes up too much space and weight and you would prefer that to be loot.

A nice idea; however, one cannot always "combine two wrecked bikes to make one good one" -- for ex., if one's opponent focuses on tire shots, one can end up with 5-6 bikes with one good tire between them (do not ask me how I know this :) ).

For a historical example: Look at what happened to the German Ju-52 fleet after the invasion of the Low Countries -- they lost about 1/2 the fleet, and all the damage was concentrated in the same pieces: Broken landing gear; bent props; dented wing leading-edges. The Germans could not take two broken planes and make one good one from those; in fact, the situation was far worse, as every airplane had to wait for the creation of the exact-same replacement parts, which overloaded those parts-makers, while other parts-makers sat idle.... (I had to point this out to a reasonably-well-known SF author of my acquaintance; it completely ruined his original plan for an "aerial invasion of Britain in WW2" novel. >:) )

Originally Posted by swordtart

I suspect the sidecar combo with the portable shop is just in the process of being cannibalised rather than being a dedicated tool transporter. It's also easier in scenario terms to have the loot in a definite place rather than on the floor somewhere.

It's a possibility; but one would have to have some "mobile repair" capacity for a raiding group -- not just salvaging whatever unfortunates one blows off the road, but also repairing one's own units when things go south. And a four-wheeler isn't always a viable option (esp. not when the local Brotherhood calls in a Knight or two).

Originally Posted by swordtart

A portable shop is not necessary in CW, a toolkit is entirely adequate for simple repairs (it just provides a slightly worse bonus). You'd be better with multiple tool kits (or mini-mechanics once they come in) so several people can work on different bikes simultaneously. Even a non-mechanic can do the easy stuff like salvaging tires and ammunition.

It isn't the Easy-level jobs which require a P.S. -- it's the Medium-and-higher jobs which require a P.S. If one looks at the "Mechanic Jobs" chart, even a Mech+1 is looking at a 9+ roll to accomplish a Medium-level job -- that's a 10-in-36 chance, or 28%. Not good odds. Adding a Toolkit doesn't help at all; it only means one doesn't take a penalty for "improvised tools". Adding the P.S.'s +2, however, up the chances for success on a Medium task to 21-in-36, or 58% -- better than half a chance.

[swordtart]

Let's unpack this.

I suggest that if you need a "mobile" mechanic then you are doing it at the site of your attack, either to recover your own vehicles or to salvage your kills.

We'll also assume that this doesn't happen on your home turf (otherwise you could take as long as you needed to tow salvage back to your own garage and fix it).

Therefore, you want to spend as little time at the site of the attack as possible as if you hang around, you invite retribution. I would say spending more than an hour* or two there is risky as you are likely to encounter casual traffic even if your victim hasn't been missed yet. Therefore, your priority is restoring mobility (you can then drive it a few miles away and hide it for later recovery to your base). That means enough wheels to move and a plant with at least 1 DP. Nothing else is worth the risk.

Let's look at the actions a mechanic can take on site.

REPAIR: This restores DPs to equipment that is damaged but not destroyed. Anything that still works is not a priority. Repairs also require parts (see salvage rules). It isn't practical to carry those spares just in case (and CW doesn't provide any idea of how that would work anyway), you buy them when you need them. Our mobile biker is not going to be performing REPAIRs on site.

JURY RIG: This is possibly something you might do on-site, but you would only bother with a plant (I don't believe it is possible to Jury Rig tires). Jury Rigging a plant is not listed, but as Jury Rigging is a level up from repair of same, I make it at least Very Hard. This is going to be beyond the capabilities of the type of mechanic that will hang around with a cycle gang. Even the +1 from the Portable Shop (you need a full garage to get +2) isn’t going to make a difference until Mechanic +2. Then it just increases the chance from “cat in hell” to “cat in hell with a bottle of water”.

SALVAGE: This also covers install. Since you are unlikely to be carrying a spare plant around, this is pretty much limited to installing tyres. This is a trivial task and even a no skill numb nut can handle it with improvised tools on a 4 or more. If they have a tool box it becomes a 2 or more (but that’s extra stowage, a mini-mech is enough). A portable shop adds nothing over a Toolkit as you can’t roll less than 2. You have the benefit of every man jack of the gang being able to do this if you have replacement tires available. In this case the 4 spaces you wasted with the shop would be better used carrying 4 STD tires (these are “get you home” tyres, not combat worthy ones). Ideally you would base all your bikes on the same chassis and you only need carry a single type of tyre (if you rule that not all bikes chassis use the same size tyre).

If you have 5-6 bikes with a single tyre between them, they are not coming home unless you are carrying spare tires regardless of the tools you are carrying.

What about all the lovely salvage that can’t be driven away? You don’t get it if you are a bike only based group. It is no coincidence that the salvage rules talk about stripping ammo and tires. Thin pickings ;(

You are unlikely to have much cargo space/weight for salvage anyway as you want your bikes to be decent attack vehicles. If you salvage a whole vehicle you just need an extra bod and you can carry everything on it (and maybe some more stuff once you toss out the gunner and passengers).

Buuut! If you have a pickup, you only need avoid painting it in gang colours and you can park up in cover close to the wreckage and strip what you like in slow time. You can duck out of sight if anyone comes along. If they find you, you can always claim to have just happened along the wreck and were just seeing if anyone had been left alive. Law enforcement tend to view scavenging roadside wreckage as a lower social ill than piracy (and may even encourage it to keep the roads clear). A gang of bikes swarming over a wreck site looks like a pirate gang, a barely armed pick-up with a down-on his luck scavenger and his buddy might even elicit sympathy, especially if the wreck has already been stripped of the easy salvage and none of that is on the pick-up.

*An issue when the smallest unit of mechanic effort is the hour (you only go to 1/2 hour with a Mech +3). As up to 3 people can work on a task we simply divided that hour by the number of successes which meant we could get down to 20 minutes if everyone succeeded. This makes road-side salvage more credible.

[43Supporter]

Originally Posted by swordtart

We'll also assume that this doesn't happen on your home turf (otherwise you could take as long as you needed to tow salvage back to your own garage and fix it).

In this case, I'd assume the opposite: If one is "on home turf", and doesn't need to worry much about being attacked, one could as-easily take one's time breaking down a wreck; whereas if one is outside one's usual turf, it would behoove one to "git in, git it, and GIT".

Originally Posted by swordtart

REPAIR: This restores DPs to equipment that is damaged but not destroyed. Anything that still works is not a priority. Repairs also require parts (see salvage rules). It isn't practical to carry those spares just in case (and CW doesn't provide any idea of how that would work anyway), you buy them when you need them. Our mobile biker is not going to be performing REPAIRs on site.

That is a Glaring Lack in the rules -- we are provided with rules for fixing things, but no clear idea of where the spare parts come from.

Watching some of the current-day car-restoration shows does give some idea of how this might be done -- one has one's cycle (or car) with cargo space containing various bolts, screws, bits of scrap, etc., which can be beaten into some semblance of usefulness with one's Portable Shop, or Toolkit, or Mini-Mechanic, or what-have-one. A failure of the die roll at the end of the 60-minute repair period can mean anything from "one couldn't find an appropriate bit of metal to beat into shape", to "that fancy autocannon uses metric parts, whereas yours are Imperial". (Insert "10mm socket" joke here.)

Originally Posted by swordtart

JURY RIG: This is possibly something you might do on-site, but you would only bother with a plant (I don't believe it is possible to Jury Rig tires).

Quite correct -- tires are "all or nothing" items; if damaged at all, they have to be replaced.

Originally Posted by swordtart

Jury Rigging a plant is not listed, but as Jury Rigging is a level up from repair of same, I make it at least Very Hard.

I've always gone with it being Hard: "Jury-rig Other Components".

Originally Posted by swordtart

This is going to be beyond the capabilities of the type of mechanic that will hang around with a cycle gang.

Not necessarily -- both "Nightstrike", and "Grand Theft Autoduel", feature biker-gang mechanics with Mech+2 or better. These may be "exceptional specimens", but they do exist.

Originally Posted by swordtart

If you have 5-6 bikes with a single tyre between them, they are not coming home unless you are carrying spare tires regardless of the tools you are carrying.

Very true -- which is why that was my preferred method for dealing with bikers: Kill their mobility, and they can be dispatched at leisure.

Originally Posted by swordtart

What about all the lovely salvage that can’t be driven away? You don’t get it if you are a bike only based group. It is no coincidence that the salvage rules talk about stripping ammo and tires. Thin pickings ;(

Part of the problem here is "tech level"; items like flatbed trailers, or Tow Bars, or such-like didn't always exist. While a bike isn't always a brilliant towing vehicle, such items became *very* helpful for getting salvage away.

Originally Posted by swordtart

If you have a pickup, you only need avoid painting it in gang colours and you can park up in cover close to the wreckage and strip what you like in slow time. You can duck out of sight if anyone comes along. If they find you, you can always claim to have just happened along the wreck and were just seeing if anyone had been left alive. Law enforcement tend to view scavenging roadside wreckage as a lower social ill than piracy (and may even encourage it to keep the roads clear). A gang of bikes swarming over a wreck site looks like a pirate gang, a barely armed pick-up with a down-on his luck scavenger and his buddy might even elicit sympathy, especially if the wreck has already been stripped of the easy salvage and none of that is on the pick-up.

Maybe -- that pickup is definitely going to need a Q-ship's ability to disguise itself; otherwise, folks *will* become suspicious when the same guy in the same pickup keeps showing up at every biker-gang-attack aftermath. (And if the stuff the pickup-guy salvages turns up on a wrecked biker-gang vehicle....)

On the topic of "raiding groups": There's an article in _ADQ 3/2_ (I think) which talks about "biker tactics". Depending on the overall size of the biker gang, it's possible they *don't* all run in one big lump; 5-6 bikes isn't an immediate threat; 30+ is "lock and load -- it's going down".

To that end, then: If a "raiding group" is 5-6 bikes, then the typical TO&E might have one "point unit" with all firepower F-mounted (maybe a RR, or one design I've seen with an MG and a pair of linked HRs), a "tail-end Charlie" (as described in another thread), a couple "floaters" (think _Hawk_ from _VG1_), and one or two "rear-echelon" bikes as described upthread (one with tools; one with empty cargo space).

As the group is doing its rounds, it happens upon a viable target -- say, a _Defender_ from _VG1_. The bikers get it to crash, and off the driver; for salvage, they can get that nice RR from the turret (heavy, but worth it), maybe the MD from the back, the tires, and a bucketload of scrap armor (depending on how many trips they want to make, or if they "phone in" the location of the wreck so others in the gang can make passes on it). Driving the whole car back might mean abandoning a bike (not a viable plan), assuming anyone has Driver skill to do so without wrecking the car even worse than it already is. But they won't necessarily get anything except some ammo if they don't have the tools on-hand to do the job; hence the RE bike.

[swordtart]

Repair is explicit. The parts cost is 2/3 of the cost of the repair. If you want to repair a Large plant that has taken only 1 DP damage back to undamaged it will cost you $130 in parts. You will not find $130 worth of parts rattling round in the bottom of your tool box. If your plant has taken 2 DPs then you are looking at $400. Fettling a scrap hacksaw blade into a substitute spring is Jury Rigging, not repair. These a not simple wear and tear failures, they are the outcome of being shot-up.

I think you are allowing the mechanical simplicity of classic vehicles that are the subject of those restoration shows to distract you from the modern (and CW) reality. When my old 80's Volkswagen ran rough I could reset and on one occasion actually repair the points myself (at the road side). On my 2007 Ford Focus I will get a generic "I've forgotten what the engine does" fault warning and I need to pay a garage to try to work out which of the dozens of tiny sensors has died so they can replace it.

[43Supporter]

Originally Posted by swordtart

Repair is explicit. The parts cost is 2/3 of the cost of the repair.

Which is one of the aspects of vehicles the original writers got Badly Wrong

Originally Posted by swordtart

I think you are allowing the mechanical simplicity of classic vehicles that are the subject of those restoration shows to distract you from the modern (and CW) reality. When my old 80's Volkswagen ran rough I could reset and on one occasion actually repair the points myself (at the road side). On my 2007 Ford Focus I will get a generic "I've forgotten what the engine does" fault warning and I need to pay a garage to try to work out which of the dozens of tiny sensors has died so they can replace it.

I watch a lot of car-restoration shows; one of the subjects covered is "what percentage of a repair bill is Parts, and what is Labor". The answer: Unless it's something huge, like having to put a new floor in, or having to rebuild an engine no one makes parts for any more, most of the cost of any repair is Labor (most garages are charging $40-50/hr.; the upper-level places can charge $80-100!).

Infamous RL Example: Toyota MR2, first generation, has what is called "the Hose From H[ades]". It's an inexpensive length of hose -- maybe $10 OTC -- but it's located so deep inside the engine, replacing it requires taking the entire engine out of the car, and removing everything which can be removed. This takes hours, if not *days*, to accomplish; at the hourly rates mentioned above, it becomes appallingly apparent where most of the bill is generated. (If you can get access to Motor Trend On Demand where you are: Watch the shows _Wheeler Dealers_, and _Fantomworks_; these are the most-educational of the bunch.)

That said: A Biker Gang doesn't really have to concern itself with Labor costs; so long as the mechanics are fed, clothed, and sheltered (and probably have some say in how salvage is distributed), they won't be concerned as much with "get rich or die tryin'". The main problem will be personality conflicts between the mechanics and the "grunts" (see "Grand Theft Autoduel" for details).

There's also the question of "just how 'generic' spare parts are" -- nuts-and-bolts, screws, etc., are fairly generic; the question is "how many, and what size, are used where?" (jokes about "10mm sockets" usually crop up at this point). I ran into this myself a while back when I needed to replace a worn-out toilet seat -- turns out: The attachment-mount spacing for a toilet seat is standard across all makers of same, so one can grab one off the rack, and be certain it's going to fit. (I can only imagine what the meeting where *that* specification was decided on was like. :) ) Based on how _CW_ works: I infer the various parts makers have a set of standards they all use, so interchangeability is not a huge issue; as far as the exact make and model which gets installed, that's "let Nature take its course".

Bringing all this back to the OP: I can easily see a Mechanic's Bike with a Portable Shop having most of the small parts needed to repair a power plant or weapon, and having the tools to deal with anything short of "most of this item is scattered across 100 yards of roadway". (Some of the field-fab work I've seen from events like _Hot Rod_ Drag Week, where the only tools and spares allowed are what can be hauled in a 6' trailer, are pretty impressive.)