Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > The Fantasy Trip > The Fantasy Trip: House Rules

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-27-2021, 06:38 AM   #41
David Bofinger
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Sydney, Australia
Default Re: Mundane Talents and Backgrounds

Some thoughts:
  1. The main effect of such a system would be to make it possible, but very expensive, to be a real expert in a mundane talent.
  2. It makes it possible to distinguish between a person who is an ordinary farmer and a person who is known as a very skilled farmer. I'm not sure that's something people are clamouring to be able to do, though I guess it does no harm.
  3. It will tend to price PCs out of the mundane talent market. Instead of paying a small fee in talent points to be able to farm, it's now a small fee to be able to walk around behind a plough, and a more substantial fee to be a farmer. As it stands nobody much bothers to buy the mundane talents, so making them more expensive or less useful is almost certainly a bad idea.
  4. The example given for a farmer is probably not a good one. The 3-point farming talent doesn't describe someone who runs an estate: that needs literacy and some kind of administrator talent but it doesn't require you to be a genius at the actual farming bit. In the same way that officers in the army or navy are not the best riflemen or most skilled knot experts but have special command talents, the genius farmer is likely to be a highly valued employee but not the manager.
David Bofinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2021, 11:31 AM   #42
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: Mundane Talents and Backgrounds

It seems pretty good to me from the standpoint of making sense, and what characters (perhaps mainly NPCs) who have mastered Farming would have. Of course, it's also only different from RAW by the IQ 9+ requirement, which probably a GM making a master farmer NPC would give them anyway.

And as for the critique that most PCs would find it too expensive to want to ever get... that seems entirely appropriate to me, again from a making-sense perspective (my usual perspective). If people want a PC who is a master farmer but are stopped by a perspective along the lines of "but it's penalizing them 2 talent points", then I'd say that if the GM has sympathy for that perspective, they can make such rulings as:

1) Ok, that makes sense for your nice character background, so yes you can start as a Master Farmer and you may still start with up to IQ in other talents.

2) In this campaign, PCs can take up to 3 points in mundane talents if they explain the background well and the GM approves.

3) You earned XP that went into Master Farmer while working as a farmer and being mentored.

etc...
Skarg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2021, 06:37 PM   #43
Shostak
 
Shostak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: New England
Default Re: Mundane Talents and Backgrounds

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Plambeck View Post
[*]Every PC would get 6 points to spend on mundane talents at character creation. If that sounds like a lot, recall I'm proposing point cost of 1, 2 and 3, and prerequisite costs in some case.
The problem is that six points is a lot in that it lets a figure have up to that many basic Mundane Talents, and that seems like too much of a good thing.

Again, I think simplifying is the best route here; make all of them cost the same and give out one for free at character generation (because if Mundane Talents weren't ever mentioned in the rules, good players and GMs would add this level of detail to characters anyway).
__________________
* * * *
Anthony Shostak
myriangia.wordpress.com
Shostak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2021, 10:54 PM   #44
Steve Plambeck
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Default Re: Mundane Talents and Backgrounds

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shostak View Post
The problem is that six points is a lot in that it lets a figure have up to that many basic Mundane Talents, and that seems like too much of a good thing.

Again, I think simplifying is the best route here; make all of them cost the same and give out one for free at character generation (because if Mundane Talents weren't ever mentioned in the rules, good players and GMs would add this level of detail to characters anyway).
Of course that brings us right back to the question, should all mundane talents cost the same? Should they all be single level talents? That's what I was hoping to address.

Maybe not six points then. Maybe three. Skip prerequisites and let the most valuable mundane talents cost a flat 3 each. It's not a take it or leave it proposal.
__________________
"I'm not arguing. I'm just explaining why I'm right."
Steve Plambeck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2021, 11:33 PM   #45
Steve Plambeck
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Default Re: Mundane Talents and Backgrounds

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Bofinger View Post
Some thoughts:
  1. The main effect of such a system would be to make it possible, but very expensive, to be a real expert in a mundane talent.
  2. It makes it possible to distinguish between a person who is an ordinary farmer and a person who is known as a very skilled farmer. I'm not sure that's something people are clamouring to be able to do, though I guess it does no harm.
  3. It will tend to price PCs out of the mundane talent market. Instead of paying a small fee in talent points to be able to farm, it's now a small fee to be able to walk around behind a plough, and a more substantial fee to be a farmer. As it stands nobody much bothers to buy the mundane talents, so making them more expensive or less useful is almost certainly a bad idea....
  4. The example given for a farmer is probably not a good one. The 3-point farming talent doesn't describe someone who runs an estate: that needs literacy and some kind of administrator talent....
As to #1 and # 3, perhaps you overlooked the part of the plan where I said these mundane talents points would be separate from and in addition to a PCs normal talent points. Spending the 6 mundane talent points wouldn't reduce the normal talents a character could choose.

Nor have I made mundane talents more expensive -- quite the opposite. Instead of each costing 1 point of the 1 point allotted, they would cost 1/6th point, 2/6th points, or 3/6th points out of the 1 free point towards mundane talents. Just so as not to introduce fractions, I multiplied everything by six. Now a "1 point" mundane talent costs only 16.66% of the mundane talent allotment (now 6), whereas before it cost 100% of that allotment when the allotment was 1. Thus a character could now have a little training at a few different mundane talents, or a lot of training at one single mundane talent. All without either choice compromising their combat and adventuring talents.

Agreed that "farmer" may not be the best example, but only because I don't have an agricultural vocabulary. I should have avoided the word "estate", perhaps substituting "plantation" or some other name. The point is there is a reasonable distinction I would think between the level of skill needed to keep a small family farm of a couple acres, and the skill needed to plan and direct the planting, care, and harvesting of several crops at once over a couple hundred acres. The latter needs to know a lot more about farming than the former. If "Master Farmer" doesn't sound right, another term could be found.
__________________
"I'm not arguing. I'm just explaining why I'm right."
Steve Plambeck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2021, 07:04 AM   #46
Shostak
 
Shostak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: New England
Default Re: Mundane Talents and Backgrounds

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Plambeck View Post
[*]Optionally, and similar to the Jobs Table, each entry could have a weekly net income. Higher incomes belonging to the higher IQ and/or more expensive ones. This income would only apply however when the PC was taking an extended break, and was staying where such talents would be useful. You couldn't earn anything fishing during a stay with desert nomads. But unlike the Jobs Table, we wouldn't bother with assigning risk and risk rolls.
Steve has a cool idea here that makes Mudnane Talents mechanically useful.
__________________
* * * *
Anthony Shostak
myriangia.wordpress.com
Shostak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2021, 07:08 PM   #47
Axly Suregrip
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Default Re: Mundane Talents and Backgrounds

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shostak View Post
Steve has a cool idea here that makes Mudnane Talents mechanically useful.
Thanks Steve and Shostak,
This is exactly the point I made earlier. See post #30:
http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...8&postcount=30
Axly Suregrip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2021, 02:53 PM   #48
Shostak
 
Shostak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: New England
Default Re: Mundane Talents and Backgrounds

My apologies for missing that, Axly; there is a lot of similarity. It was Steve’s suggestion that the Mundane Talent remove the risk roll altogether that grabbed my attention. Your proposal, which minimizes the risk but leaves the possibility of failure, is probably more realistic. But I still think none of the Mundane Talents would be worth a two- or three-point investment.
__________________
* * * *
Anthony Shostak
myriangia.wordpress.com
Shostak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2021, 03:17 PM   #49
hcobb
 
hcobb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Pacheco, California
Default Re: Mundane Talents and Backgrounds

WMG: Lawyer is a 3-point talent because Law School survival is all about virtue signalling through mindless effort.
__________________
-HJC
hcobb is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2021, 07:47 PM   #50
David Bofinger
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Sydney, Australia
Default Re: Mundane Talents and Backgrounds

Quote:
Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
WMG: Lawyer is a 3-point talent because Law School survival is all about virtue signalling through mindless effort.
In our society, at least, law school and medical school have a lot in common. But Physicker is only a 2-point talent.
David Bofinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:05 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.