Multiple attacks with Staff?

[roguebfl]

Originally Posted by Vynticator

Rasmus, I think you've misunderstood the thread. I'm using Extra Attack with Ambidexterity. B54 explicitly permits one of the attacks to use a Rapid Strike, giving -0/-6/-6.

Thanks again to everyone for the help and links.

What we are trying top point out -0/-6/-6 (or -6/-6/-0) from Extra Attack requires the use of two separate 'weapons' Extra Attack requires the Multistrike enhancement to be the same weapon as the original attack.

What some people at talking about is a quasi (if not out right) house rule that under the right condensations a staff can be treated as dual weapon.

[Lord Carnifex]

Originally Posted by roguebfl

What some people at talking about is a quasi (if not out right) house rule that under the right condensations a staff can be treated as dual weapon.

Add me to the tally of people who would find this acceptable.

[Daigoro]

Originally Posted by Kuroshima

BTW, on the subject of DWA with a staff, I would allow them, BUT:

• ...
• The attacks must be made against different targets, and both of them must be in the front arc
• The attacks must use the swing line, not the thrust one
  ...

You can't thrust to the face then swing to the leg/groin? Or does that count as separate targets?
But even then, I can see two swings to the head or torso, or anything in the same swing plane, as doable.

[DouglasCole]

I sort of get the impression that DWA represents two attacks made at exactly (or close enough) the same time, with different weapons. Thus, "Dual-Weapon" attack. While it's not a requirement that the two attacks land at precisely the same time, I believe it might be a good guiding principle that they COULD be.

The stuff being referred to here, say striking the head, then the groin (or big toe, or whatever) with the staff nearly HAS to be, by that definition, a Rapid Strike.

Hitting two adjacent fighters with oppostite ends of a staff gripped in the middle could legitimately fall under DWA, but hitting the same guy bang-bang is hard to imagine, and is thus Rapid Strike.

Splitting the hairs finely, I admit, but I think that's where the dividing line falls.

One last note: AoA(Feint and Attack) does not preserve defenses; selecting the All-Out maneuver denies all defense as a condition of going All-Out.

[roguebfl]

Originally Posted by Daigoro

You can't thrust to the face then swing to the leg/groin? Or does that count as separate targets?
But even then, I can see two swings to the head or torso, or anything in the same swing plane, as doable.

given how much body posture and grip shift that takes that s deftly two attack at very much in the staffs two handed weapon nature, not a mock two weapons joined together nature. So would bet weither a AoA:Double or a Rapid strike, not a DWA.

maybe, maybe two swing attacks to oppose sides of the torso could be a DWA

[Daigoro]

Quite right, I was answering the question of "what can you do with a staff?" when it should be "what counts as a DWA?"

Having said that, shouldn't it be easier to swing with both ends of a staff than the -6/-6 of a Rapid Strike? The Rapid Strike penalty seems reasonable for say, a sword, where it has to be withdrawn, readied and swung twice, compared to a staff, where the first strike sets up for the second. Or is this just an argument for using Combinations?

[Trachmyr]

Originally Posted by Daigoro

Quite right, I was answering the question of "what can you do with a staff?" when it should be "what counts as a DWA?"

Having said that, shouldn't it be easier to swing with both ends of a staff than the -6/-6 of a Rapid Strike? The Rapid Strike penalty seems reasonable for say, a sword, where it has to be withdrawn, readied and swung twice, compared to a staff, where the first strike sets up for the second. Or is this just an argument for using Combinations?

And similarly, should Staff be an exception to needing Multistrike for Extra Attack 1?

[roguebfl]

Originally Posted by Daigoro

Quite right, I was answering the question of "what can you do with a staff?" when it should be "what counts as a DWA?"

Having said that, shouldn't it be easier to swing with both ends of a staff than the -6/-6 of a Rapid Strike? The Rapid Strike penalty seems reasonable for say, a sword, where it has to be withdrawn, readied and swung twice, compared to a staff, where the first strike sets up for the second. Or is this just an argument for using Combinations?

Rapid strikes also cover to quick rabbit punches, or to quick thursts with a small sword both are which are easier than to swing one end of a staff then swing the other all the way around.

but yes Combination is way to get your "one-two" rapid strike attacks down pat.

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

One last note: AoA(Feint and Attack) does not preserve defenses; selecting the All-Out maneuver denies all defense as a condition of going All-Out.

No but an Attack Maneuver using Rapid Strike does preserve the defenses, but it will make the feint at a -6 penalty