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Old 08-10-2018, 11:09 PM   #41
hal
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Buffalo, New York
Default Re: [Magic] Colleges And Prerequisites: What Are They?

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Originally Posted by scc View Post
The problem is that these days we have forms to limited Magery that crosses College lines.

Ok, I can see what you're getting at with regards to "these days". So, let's ask you a different question...

If you could go back to simpler times, a time that goes back to the days before certain "options" were not introduced, and all that existed was GURPS MAGIC 2nd edition (known today as GURPS CLASSIC MAGIC) with NONE of the add on issues from GURPS 4e, or GURPS THAUMATOLOGY, or anything else for that matter.

Start with the core form that didn't have magery 0 (a later invention towards the closing days of GURPS 3e). See how it works in that format and work towards the implications of what it once was.

Then, as has been alluded to in the past, take out specific tools or option switches to customize what it is you want from GURPS MAGIC. Where necessary - weed out the spells you don't want in the game, or nerf their effectiveness or make those changes you feel are necessary to get the feel you want for the game you want. If necessary, add on things to restrict certain spells in an effort to tone things down. For example? Enlarge (the spell) allows you to change the size of the object the spell is cast upon without much in the way of limits. Why not limit it by Magery in the sense that size can not vary more than 1+magery? If you have magery 3, you can enlage something by up to 4 size modifiers larger. If you feel that Summon Demon needs to be changed such that you need a spell for Summon Imps (as was suggested in GURPS GRIMOIRE but changed in GURPS MAGIC for 4e) then do so.

In the end, and I can't say this strongly enough...

If you can't make it come to life in your own mind, how are you (as GM) supposed to make it come to life for your players?
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Old 08-11-2018, 10:39 AM   #42
johndallman
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Cambridge, UK
Default Re: [Magic] Colleges And Prerequisites: What Are They?

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Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
On the game-world level, prerequisite structure definitely means something! … As many people in this thread have pointed out already, those are worldbuilding issues. They are extremely meaningful for establishing a setting's "flavor."
They were originally part of the worldbuilding for Yrth, of course. That seems to have been very much designed as a rational fantasy setting, where a methodical, if not necessarily scientific, approach to magic definitely fitted the world.
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Old 08-11-2018, 12:27 PM   #43
edk926
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Default Re: [Magic] Colleges And Prerequisites: What Are They?

I feel that one-college magery is the most "realistic" way to do it because it most matches real life advanced education. Typically when you go to university, you usually need to take a variety of general education classes, which you could represent as a variety of Magery 0 spells, Then you major in one specific field (or more in some cases), which you can represent as One-College Magery.

That said, often majors are close enough to other majors where they share similar knowledge and course, which can easily result in forms of limited Magery that cross College lines so to speak.
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Old 08-11-2018, 03:12 PM   #44
Anaraxes
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Default Re: [Magic] Colleges And Prerequisites: What Are They?

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Originally Posted by scc View Post
As an example what's stopping someone from trying to cover the world in a sheet of fire in such a system?
All the freeform / improvisational magic schemes I've seen have limits to difficulty, time, power, area, etc. Just because there's not a rigid list of predefined spells with no variation allowed doesn't meant a mage can actually effect any and all spells that he can imagine or describe in words. Certainly, if the system were that characters could simply enact anything their player chose instantly, with no effort or chance of failure, you might have gods, but I haven't seen a system that works that way.

Mechanically, I'm only familiar with MtA via the GURPS 3e version, which is the original inspiration for Realm Magic in 4e Thaumatology. Are all Realm mages god, in your view?

The most famous limitation in MtA is "Paradox". The universe gets annoyed by "vulgar" magic, which is anything that doesn't seem at least superficially natural, or "coincidental" as the terminology goes. A sheet of fire covering the world would certainly be vulgar, and presumably a typical mage can't soak that much Paradox.

Since we're talking about gods, another touchpoint would be Nobilis. The characters there really are supposed to be gods, or at least demigods. They're embodiments of a particular "Estate", a concept or word, whether that's "Energy" or "Happiness" or "Cats". They can command their Estates as they see fit, and the actual game term for their actions is "miracles", which need not be plausible or conform to mundane physics. But they're still limited by a action economy, Miracle Points, and of course the opposition of equal or greater enemies in their conflict with similar abilities. Normal humans are mooks, probably even less effective than in oWoD, but the godlings still aren't completely unfettered. It seems like a playable game, not just the six-year-old form of roleplaying ("I shot you! You're dead! No I'm not!").

Last edited by Anaraxes; 08-11-2018 at 03:17 PM.
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