Traveller Stateroom Space Question

Henchman99942 · 12-13-2017, 02:53 PM

So, I am reading this from GURPS Traveller Interstellar Wars (4th Edition)...

'Quarters and Miscellaneous' Page 198.

"Crew and passengers need quarters to live in during travel. Several classes
of accomodation are available. The space taken up by these systems is
only about 50% allocated to living space; the rest is taken up by common
areas (corridors, galleys, lounges, and so on) and life support equipment."

Does this mean that: The listed spaces for each stateroom represents half of the total required living space - and that a starship must allocate double this value of 'spaces' (dtons of volume) when designing a ship?

Or does this mean that: The listed spaces for each stateroom represents the total required living space - and that the ships deckplans should have actual staterooms take up half this volume, with the other half corridors, galleys, lounges, and so on.

Thanks for the assist.

thrash · 12-13-2017, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henchman99942

The listed spaces for each stateroom represents the total required living space - and that the ships deckplans should have actual staterooms take up half this volume, with the other half corridors, galleys, lounges, and so on.

This one. Four dtons is 200-250 square feet of deck space, where a double bedroom is more like 100 sf.

jason taylor · 12-13-2017, 08:58 PM

How much could be freed if the crew are willing to sleep in barracks-like arrangements(without separate staterooms, but in the cliché bunks or hammocks that is)?

thrash · 12-14-2017, 06:28 AM

Interstellar Wars (p. 198) already lists a bunkroom module: accommodations and life support for 10, in a 2-dton package. Once again, half of that volume is common space, corridors, etc.

Pomphis · 12-14-2017, 03:51 PM

GT:Starships has a bunkroom for up to 16 people.

Henchman99942 · 12-29-2017, 06:43 AM

I am using ISW which has a bunkroom listed as having 10 occupants, displacing 2 spaces (dtons or dʌ), massing 0.5 tons (again, I am using metric tons) and costing 0.01 Mcr. GT:Starships lists a bunkroom (at TL10) as displacing 4 spaces, massing 4.80 s-tons, costing 0.018 MCr and using 0.16 MWs.

I get that the stats listed for staterooms include extra space allocated for recreation areas, lounges, hallways, etc... As for life-support, I am using the 0.5 meter space between the 2.5 m ceiling and the 3m height for a standard '1.5 m square' of deck plan for such systems. And for a stateroom's deckplan footprint, I am using 1/2 that listed space.

Note: A space (dton or dʌ) is two deckplan squares, which amounts to 1.5 m long x 1.5 m wide x 3 m tall. I am using 13.5 cubic meters rather than GURPS's 500 cubic feet. But it amounts to the same basic system.

But... Something like bunkrooms are already fairly tight quarters... I cannot see, and personally will not use, the same 50% rule for them. If I am making a ship that is all bunkrooms and no staterooms, I will permit the ceiling space to contain enough life support for them, but they will take up the entire listed volume in terms of their deckplan footprint. Additionally, If the ratio of people to volume of living quarters exceeds a certain number, then additional living spaces must be added using the stats for stateroom (or half staterooms) to allow for people to be able to move around. Standard staterooms have an occupants to volume ratio of 1:2 (2 people per 4 dʌ). I am fine with this being reduced to 1:1, but beyond that, you are literally tripping over each other. A crew may put up with it (or a bunch of refugees who would be dead otherwise) but not ordinary paying customers. The only modern equivalent I can think of are cruise ships, but I cannot find anything that focuses on living space specifically (only total ship tonnage).

GT:Starships says: Some ships also have much more room than others...
room your vessel has for the crew... Divide total number of dtons devoted to a crew's comfort (staterooms, bunkrooms, recreational facilities) by the total crew not in low berths. Spartan (2.00 to 2.25 dʌ /person). Average (2.26 to 3.00). Above average (3.01 to 4.00). Luxurious (4.01+) Anything below 2.00 dʌ /person is considered cramped and will result in a -1 penalty to all shipboard operations.

I did manage to visually construct a standard bunkroom and squeeze 10 bunks into it, and even have room for a very compact water closet, but nothing else. I cannot accept that 10 people can make use of HALF of the listed space - unless that HALF is the central walkway people use to get to their bunks.

On a side note, the ship I have been designing is finished. I am happy with the design, performance and deckplans. The 'Ossaduo' is a TL10, 200 dton (dʌ) Explorer Class Merchant Trader. It is a Vargr ship of standard design using an Airframe and boasting an (almost) 100 dʌ cargobay.

12-13-2017, 02:53 PM	#1
Henchman99942 Join Date: Oct 2012	Traveller Stateroom Space Question So, I am reading this from GURPS Traveller Interstellar Wars (4th Edition)... 'Quarters and Miscellaneous' Page 198. "Crew and passengers need quarters to live in during travel. Several classes of accomodation are available. The space taken up by these systems is only about 50% allocated to living space; the rest is taken up by common areas (corridors, galleys, lounges, and so on) and life support equipment." Does this mean that: The listed spaces for each stateroom represents half of the total required living space - and that a starship must allocate double this value of 'spaces' (dtons of volume) when designing a ship? Or does this mean that: The listed spaces for each stateroom represents the total required living space - and that the ships deckplans should have actual staterooms take up half this volume, with the other half corridors, galleys, lounges, and so on. Thanks for the assist.

12-13-2017, 08:58 PM	#3
jason taylor Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Portland, Oregon	Re: Traveller Stateroom Space Question How much could be freed if the crew are willing to sleep in barracks-like arrangements(without separate staterooms, but in the cliché bunks or hammocks that is)? __________________ "The navy could probably win a war without coffee but would prefer not to try"-Samuel Eliot Morrison

12-14-2017, 06:28 AM	#4
thrash Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: traveller	Re: Traveller Stateroom Space Question Interstellar Wars (p. 198) already lists a bunkroom module: accommodations and life support for 10, in a 2-dton package. Once again, half of that volume is common space, corridors, etc.

12-14-2017, 03:51 PM	#5
Pomphis Join Date: Oct 2004	Re: Traveller Stateroom Space Question GT:Starships has a bunkroom for up to 16 people.

12-29-2017, 06:43 AM	#6
Henchman99942 Join Date: Oct 2012	Re: Traveller Stateroom Space Question I am using ISW which has a bunkroom listed as having 10 occupants, displacing 2 spaces (dtons or dʌ), massing 0.5 tons (again, I am using metric tons) and costing 0.01 Mcr. GT:Starships lists a bunkroom (at TL10) as displacing 4 spaces, massing 4.80 s-tons, costing 0.018 MCr and using 0.16 MWs. I get that the stats listed for staterooms include extra space allocated for recreation areas, lounges, hallways, etc... As for life-support, I am using the 0.5 meter space between the 2.5 m ceiling and the 3m height for a standard '1.5 m square' of deck plan for such systems. And for a stateroom's deckplan footprint, I am using 1/2 that listed space. Note: A space (dton or dʌ) is two deckplan squares, which amounts to 1.5 m long x 1.5 m wide x 3 m tall. I am using 13.5 cubic meters rather than GURPS's 500 cubic feet. But it amounts to the same basic system. But... Something like bunkrooms are already fairly tight quarters... I cannot see, and personally will not use, the same 50% rule for them. If I am making a ship that is all bunkrooms and no staterooms, I will permit the ceiling space to contain enough life support for them, but they will take up the entire listed volume in terms of their deckplan footprint. Additionally, If the ratio of people to volume of living quarters exceeds a certain number, then additional living spaces must be added using the stats for stateroom (or half staterooms) to allow for people to be able to move around. Standard staterooms have an occupants to volume ratio of 1:2 (2 people per 4 dʌ). I am fine with this being reduced to 1:1, but beyond that, you are literally tripping over each other. A crew may put up with it (or a bunch of refugees who would be dead otherwise) but not ordinary paying customers. The only modern equivalent I can think of are cruise ships, but I cannot find anything that focuses on living space specifically (only total ship tonnage). GT:Starships says: Some ships also have much more room than others... room your vessel has for the crew... Divide total number of dtons devoted to a crew's comfort (staterooms, bunkrooms, recreational facilities) by the total crew not in low berths. Spartan (2.00 to 2.25 dʌ /person). Average (2.26 to 3.00). Above average (3.01 to 4.00). Luxurious (4.01+) Anything below 2.00 dʌ /person is considered cramped and will result in a -1 penalty to all shipboard operations. I did manage to visually construct a standard bunkroom and squeeze 10 bunks into it, and even have room for a very compact water closet, but nothing else. I cannot accept that 10 people can make use of HALF of the listed space - unless that HALF is the central walkway people use to get to their bunks. On a side note, the ship I have been designing is finished. I am happy with the design, performance and deckplans. The 'Ossaduo' is a TL10, 200 dton (dʌ) Explorer Class Merchant Trader. It is a Vargr ship of standard design using an Airframe and boasting an (almost) 100 dʌ cargobay.