12-04-2017, 07:44 PM | #61 |
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
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Re: Question on 'Ramming'
And the only reason I began this thread is initially in the Steam game, the Ogre was only allowed two total rams on anything, armor or infantry. It's been fixed in the computer game, and way back on page one SJ himself said it should be read the way we've been playing it.
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12-05-2017, 09:15 AM | #62 |
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
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Re: Question on 'Ramming'
So normally I get the Ogre close enough to the CP on Steam and just pop it with some AP. The other day I actually rammed it, having lost all my weapons before I got there. I'd never noticed, but why is the stationary CP listed as being a "Heavy Tracked Vehicle"?
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12-05-2017, 01:50 PM | #63 |
Join Date: Jun 2012
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Re: Question on 'Ramming'
I have always played Infantry being reduced by Ogres SJ's way. I agree that it may be more of a FAQ issue than an erratum.
As for the CP being a heavy track unit, maybe it's really an MCP that ran out of tread units? I guess they had to call it something. |
12-05-2017, 02:15 PM | #64 |
Wielder of Smart Pants
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
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Re: Question on 'Ramming'
Probably because structures don't actually have a column on the terrain effects table (for obvious reasons) but the software might require that all tokens be categorized.
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12-05-2017, 02:55 PM | #65 | ||
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Pennsylvania
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Re: Question on 'Ramming'
Quote:
The fact there is a limit of two elsewhere in the ramming rules, which this rule is couched in, is all the more reason it should be clarified with crystal clarity. In the rule: An Ogre/SHVY in a hex with infantry may expend a movement point, stay in the same hex, and reduce the infantry again. When all its AP weapons are gone, an Ogre/SHVY can no longer reduce infantry in this way. It states the OGRE can move into the same hex and reduce the infantry again(.) That's a two times limit being implied when considering the limit elsewhere in the ramming rules. Then it ends the rule with stating when all it's AP guns are gone, it can't reduce infantry anymore. Well, obviously, if it doesn't have AP weapons left, it could't reduce infantry anymore. Also, the OGRE would not loose any AP when reducing infantry this way. If anything, that is a redundant rule statement, but it's one that Imho should be there for clarity. This leaves the question of how many times can a OGRE reduce infantry this way because it does not mention movement as the answer. Quote:
It's those "some" people that will shy away from OGRE because the rules are not clear for them, or they won't play it as much or be inclined to teach it as much. If we want more OGRE players we should strive to be more inclusive of it's player base, regardless of our own personal grasp on the rules. What about the new player reading the rules for the first time having FAQs? How much less likely are they to take a shine to the game and want to play and teach it? The OGRE rules are written in a very legal format. This is not always conducive to understanding by the widest possible readership (read as Player base). I suggest a companion rules set for OGRE be written that can be understood by the laymen. (Read as player base that have FAQs and new players). Call it The IDIOT'S GUIDE TO OGRE...but seriously folks... I recall it being discussed during the 2012 KS about if the rules should be rewritten or kept in the same format. It was decided to be kept as is. That tells me there was concern about the rules not being as accessible as they could be. That is not a bad thing. What is a bad thing is when you have a portion of the player base having issues with understanding the rules as "some" clearly do. This will continue until new rules are written that compliment the already existing rules and how they are formatted. This new rebooting of the rules can coexist beside the rules we currently have. This would make for a nice submission to The OGREzine...Challenge accepted. ;)
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"So I stood my ground...my only hope to die as I had always lived-fighting" John Carter of Mars |
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12-05-2017, 07:43 PM | #66 | |
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Re: Question on 'Ramming'
Quote:
That probably doesn't help this discussion any more than my tossing in a statement like: Why is it just AP guns to reduce, and not SBs or main guns? I think the overrun rules from GEV are more fun, have fewer caveats, and work better than the ram/reduce rules from Ogre. I wish there were a way to switch just that on in the video game even though it'd get very fiddly very fast. |
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12-06-2017, 12:20 PM | #67 | |
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Cheltenham, PA
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Re: Question on 'Ramming'
Quote:
P.S. I'm not trying to be a grammar Nazi with the difference between 'imply' and 'infer', above; in this case it does make a significant difference in how things are being interpreted. If the rules actually implied a limit of 2 infantry overruns beyond the need for the 'armor units' clarification, I would agree it needed to be changed.
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Joshua Megerman, SJGames MIB #5273 - Ogre AI Testing Division |
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12-06-2017, 02:19 PM | #68 | |||
Wielder of Smart Pants
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
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Re: Question on 'Ramming'
Quote:
FAQs are in addition to, and seperate from, the rules, errata are changes to the rules which will be included in future printings. How many words do you propose to add? Which words are you going to cut to make room? Quote:
Quote:
Artillery, when used as a close defense weapon comes with labels like "Final Protective Fire" and "Danger Close" and isn't usually a thing you want to do a lot. MGs, OTOH, are made for repelling assaults with fire. |
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12-06-2017, 02:31 PM | #69 |
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Cheltenham, PA
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Re: Question on 'Ramming'
That's what I always figured - MB and SB need to be aimed fairly closely to take out a BPC-armored anything, not to mention the potential for backlash from the close proximity nuclear detonation damaging the Ogre. AP, on the other hand, just fire continuously as the Ogre sweeps past and handwavium does the rest.
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Joshua Megerman, SJGames MIB #5273 - Ogre AI Testing Division |
12-06-2017, 07:20 PM | #70 |
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Hex G1-1508
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Re: Question on 'Ramming'
Off topic but, speaking of artillery, why were howitzers never mounted on Ogres?
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