minis and "pre-measuring" distance controversy

[Blue Ghost]

So, I've been in a few games with minis at the last couple of cons I've been to, and apparently "pre-measuring" is a big no-no.

I'm a little lost on this concept, because all the non miniature games I've been in you can always check range to help you decide whether or not you're going to fire.

What's the deal with miniatures and keeping your tape measure holstered until you decide to fire or not?

I don't think this was an issue at the last mini-CW game, but I kept to the etiquette of not measuring ranges until I was certain I was going to fire.

[schoon]

Various games have various stances on the topic.

Arguments for and against involve technology, ready access to "in-universe" information, etc.

In practice, it favors those who have a more innate/intrinsic sense of distance. They can essentially eyeball distances better.

As I don't see "eyeball skill" as one that should apply in miniature tactics/strategy, I generally favor pre-measuring. It also helps that I generally play sci-fi games.

Everyone has a different opinion, and many are quite vehement.

Honestly, I've never known the official Car Wars stance.

[bms]

I’ve never thought of it as an etiquette thing. For SPARK, it’s just the way we play.

The way we do it is that you’re allowed to use an unmarked straight edge such as a length of string or the back side of a tape measure (assuming it’s unmarked) to check things like LOS or firing arcs, but once you measure range to a target, you are commited to firing at that target for the rest of that turn.

[43Supporter]

The groups I was in allowed unlimited targeting -- but then, I don't recall anyone ever abusing the privilege and slowing up the game (most shooting was done at "whites of his sidewalls" range anyway).

[Magesmiley]

One of the biggest reasons for prohibiting measuring unless you're actually firing is simply one of time. This is particularly the case at conventions, where the time games are allotted is particularly important.

Having played against some players who repeatedly measured after every single move in the past, I promise you, it gets old really fast and bogs down the game.

I'll have to do some digging, but the tournament rules for Car Wars did include a rule where that if you measured you were using your firing action. You could opt not to fire after measuring, though your action was still used.

This is how all of the groups I gamed with played after seeing the rule. I also use this rule when running my Car Wars tournaments. It keeps the game moving, and when you're trying to keep the games within their allotted time (2 hours and change for my events usually), shaving what adds up to minutes of play time off really helps.

[JimTullis]

Originally Posted by schoon

Various games have various stances on the topic.
In practice, it favors those who have a more innate/intrinsic sense of distance. They can essentially eyeball distances better.

Lack of pre-measuring also favors players who are good at secretly bumping minis.
Me: "I swear I moved to within shooting range of your unit."
OP: "Well, it seems you missed by 1/8th."
AND
Me: "I know I left my unit out of charge range."
Op: "Appears not my friend."


I just do whatever the game in question requires.
If a game allows pre-measuring I usually only do it if there's a really good reason for targeting a specific unit. Otherwise whatever is closest is probably getting shot at anyway.

[Blue Ghost]

That's interesting. Years back I used to do a WW2 mini game, and we did all kinds of pre-measuring, or so I recall. Of course, our games lasted until 4AM ... so yeah, I can see the need for expediency in a convention setting.

It just seemed to be a big issue with a couple of the games I played, so I was kind of curious as to why. I actually did ask before doing a Star Wars' mini game what their policy was ... I can't remember the answer, but I never pre-measured.

Whatever. Thanks for the replies.

p.s. it's funny, for all the fights I got into over rules, Car Wars doesn't seem prone to that in all the groups I've been with. Maybe there's a connection there.

[JimTullis]

Originally Posted by Blue Ghost

I actually did ask before doing a Star Wars' mini game what their policy was ... I can't remember the answer, but I never pre-measured.

If it was X-Wing, the answer is that you cannot "pre-measure", but if a declared target is out of range/arc you may choose a new target.

For maneuvers, you may not pre-measure, but Barrel Rolls and Boosts may not take you into contact with obstacles or other ships and if your declared attempt would do so you may choose to alter or abandon the action.

[swordtart]

Not allowing pre-measuring with CW seems at odds with the grid in the normal game. If you are allowed to count the squares in the paper version, why can't you measure in a 3D version.

Also if you are only controlling a single car sweeping a rule round to see who is in range doesn't seem a massive time sink to me (different when you are controlling dozens of minis agreed). Maneuvering was always the slow bit (and you have to measure that).

We have just accepted that CW takes a long time to play out very little in-game time. That is why we play by e-mail. You can plan and measure to your hearts content in the time it takes to get a return in.

In general I wouldn't agree to no pre-measuring as you are penalising people who are not good at judging distance by eye (so often novice or younger players). It smacks at elitism.

[Blue Ghost]

It was actually a ground assault. I was on the Imperial side, and the Falcon with Han, Chewy and the rest had landed on some planet with divided loyalties. We stormed them.

It was kind of out there "extended universe" kind of stuff.

There was a Car Wars game being run, but it was strictly younger folks, and I think it was run by an MIB.

I wish there had been a CW mini game there. Next year.